Episode 6: LA's bid for 2024 Olympics, youth soccer, and Bilqis Abdul-Qaadir on sports and activism
In Episode 6 of Burn It All Down, Julie DiCaro, Jessica Luther, Brenda Elsey, and Shireen Ahmed discuss Los Angeles’ bid for the 2024 Olympics, and youth soccer, and Shireen interviews Bilqis Abdul-Qaadir. Plus you’ll hear The Burn Pile, and Badass Woman of the Week!
Introduction (0:58) New sports announced for the summer Olympics in 2020 but alongside that are ongoing protests against Los Angeles’ inevitable hosting of the Olympics in either 2024 or 2028 (12:44) 8-year-old Mili Hernandez’s soccer team was disqualified a tournament because Mili’s short hair made her look like a boy, revealing the complicated intersection of identity, the gender binary, and sport (21:40) Shireen interviews Bilqis Abdul-Qaadir, a Muslim hooper, who set the high school scoring record in Massachusetts, beat Obama in a game of HORSE at the White House, and was banned from playing on the professional level because she wears a hijab (36:40) Burn Pile – hosts set metaphorical fire to the softball questions Chicago media tossed at Addison Russell (39:16) to the University of North Carolina and its athletic director, Bubba Cunningham for cancelling the course, “Big Time College Sports and The Rights of Athletes” (40:50) to Real Madrid’s Federico Valverde and the racist gesture of pulling the outer corner of his eyes (42:02) to the men who dedicate a lot of time on social media to downrating the work women create and put into the world (43:15)
This week’s Badass Woman of the Week goes to Jelena Ostapenko, the 20-year-old unseeded French Open champion (44:56) with honorable mentions to Canada Women’s National retiring soccer players and Hall of Fame inductees Josée Bélanger, Jonelle Filigno, Robyn Gayle, Kaylyn Kyle, and Lauren Sesselmann (46:08) and our own Lindsay Gibbs, the birthday girl (46:36) Congratulations to Julie for winning a Gracie Award for #MoreThanMean (47:12)
Links
New Olympic sports in 2020: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/09/sports/olympics/2020-summer-olympics-events.html?_r=0
Katie Ledecky and the 1500m: http://www.nbcolympics.com/news/no-1500m-olympics-women-katie-ledecky-out-luck
3-on-3 basketball: http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/06/3-on-3-olympic-basketball-rules-3-pointer-shot-clock-kevin-durant-ideal-player
“Olympic sevens rugby set to continue into the 2024 Games”: http://www.rugbyworld.com/news/olympic-sevens-rugby-78798
“Australian Women’s Rugby Sevens program gets huge funding increase after Rio gold”: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/sport/act-sport/australian-womens-rugby-sevens-program-gets-huge-funding-increase-after-rio-gold-20170609-gwo266.html
Jules Boykoff on why Los Angeles should pushback against the Olympics: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jun/09/los-angeles-olympic-bid-2028-summer-games?CMP=share_btn_tw
A Q+A with one of the organizers behind NOlympics LA: https://la.curbed.com/2017/6/9/15772478/la-no-olympics-why-should-not-host
Julie from July of last year, “The Dark Side of the Rio Summer Olympics”: http://nerdist.com/the-dark-side-of-the-rio-summer-olympics/
HBO Real Sports’ reporting on the Olympics: http://www.hbo.com/real-sports-with-bryant-gumbel/episodes/0/232-episode/synopsis/july-on-real-sports-with-bryant-gumbel.html
Rio’s Olympic venues are falling apart (Worms? WORMS!): https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/feb/10/rio-olympic-venues-already-falling-into-a-state-of-disrepair
Jessica from August of last year, “Rio 2016 celebrates women, but at what cost?”: http://www.excellesports.com/news/column-jessica-luther-brazil/
Beijing and Human Rights: https://www.amnestyusa.org/press-releases/2022-olympics-in-china-a-test-for-human-rights/
Sochi and LGBTQ Rights: http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/02/24/sochi_olympics_how_the_international_lgbtq_rights_movement_failed_russian.html
Militarization and the Olympics: https://www.thenation.com/article/why-all-opponents-gentrification-and-police-militarization-should-oppose-dc-2024-olympic/
Mili Hernandez’s team disqualified from a youth soccer tournament: http://www.wowt.com/content/news/8-year-old-girl-disqualified-from-soccer-game-because-she-looks-like-a-boy-426397041.html
Katie Barnes at espnW: “Having short hair or playing with action figures is no indication of gender”: http://www.espn.com/espnw/voices/article/19587919/having-short-hair-playing-action-figures-no-indication-gender
The soccer tournament’s side in the disqualification of Hernandez’s team: http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-girls-soccer-short-hair-20170609-story.html
GLAAD’s media reference guide: https://www.glaad.org/reference
Shireen’s piece on FIBA finally lifting the ban on religious headwear: https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/after-a-long-fight-fiba-finally-lifts-its-ban-on-religious-headwear
“Life Without Basketball,” a documentary about Abdul-Qaadir: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OavrXZs9YgM
Muslim Girls Hoop, Too: http://muslimgirlshooptoo.weebly.com/
“Addison Russell, Cubs issue statements as MLB looks into domestic abuse allegations”: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-addison-russell-domestic-abuse-allegation-20170608-story.html
First three questions at Russell’s press conference: https://twitter.com/KevinKaduk/status/873212448932745216
“A UNC course that dealt with athletics scandal is canceled. Now some want to know why”: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/article154031604.html
“Under-20 World Cup: Real Madrid’s Federico Valverde denies making racist gesture”: http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/40167593
The Julie and Maggie Show: https://www.facebook.com/JulieMaggieShow and https://twitter.com/JulieMaggieShow
Jelena Ostapenko wins the French Open: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/10/sports/tennis/french-open-jelena-ostapenko-simona-halep.html
“Canada Soccer to honour five retiring Women’s National team players & Hall of Fame inductee at match in Toronto”: http://www.canadasoccer.com/canada-soccer-to-honour-five-retiring-women-s-national-team-players-hall-of-fame-inductee-at-match-in-toronto-p160883
The Gracie award winners: http://allwomeninmedia.org/gracies/2017-gracie-winners/
Transcript
Julie: Welcome to this week's episode of Burn It All Down. It may not be the sports and feminism podcast you want, but it's the sports and feminism podcast you need. Let's introduce you to this week's panel. Today we have Jessica Luther, sportswriter out of Austin, Texas; Brenda Elsey, associate professor at Hofstra University; Shireen Ahmed, freelance sportswriter out of Toronto; and I'm Julie DiCaro, a sportswriter and radio host in Chicago. This week, we’ll discuss Los Angeles’s bid for the 2024 Olympic Games, a disturbing story that came out of youth soccer this week, and Shireen interviews American basketballer Bilqis Abdul-Qaadir. Let's jump right into topic number one: Los Angeles is bidding for the 2024 Olympics, and not everyone is thrilled about that. Jessica, you want to tell us about that?
Jessica: Sure. Well, I want to start by backing up. It was a big week for the Olympics, and there was a lot of exciting stuff that actually happened. So, the IOC, the International Olympic Committee’s executive board made this huge announcement on Friday. It's going to add the 1500 meters for women's swimming. That's like a mile – which I can't even imagine swimming a mile. But they're going to add it for the 2020 Olympics in Tokyo. This is a specialty of US swimmer Katie Ledecky, the one who like tore up the pool. She's held the world record for three years and everyone's been hoping that she gets to go for the Olympic gold medal.
They also announced that they're going to add 3x3 basketball, and I love it because they said, “We want to take sport to the youth,” which makes me think of that Steve Buscemi meme where he's like, hello, fellow kids! But I love the idea of 3x3 basketball. And then this is really cool: they also announced that both track and field and swimming will have mixed gender races in 2020. So there'll be a 4x100 mixed medley relay in swimming, and a 4x400 mixed relay in track. Okay. And so, before I talk about what's going on in Los Angeles, I want to talk about very quickly what's going on with rugby.
So, the rugby world was super thrilled this week. The committee said that it's going to retain all 28 sports from Rio in 2016 through the 2024 Olympics, which means that rugby sevens, which was new in Rio, will be around for at least two more Olympics. This was a big deal, because in the wake of that announcement the Australian Sports Commission and the Australian Institute of Sports, they announced that next year the Australian women's rugby sevens team – they're the reigning Olympic champions – they’re going to get a 65% increase in their funding. That's an additional $500,000.
According to The Canberra Times, AIS director said that “the women's gold medal performance at the Rio Olympics played a significant role in securing the extra cash,” and defended their initially modest funding. So, the Olympics matter to the funding for the Australian women's rugby sevens team, directly. Okay. So, I find all of that super exciting about the Olympics. I love all the kind of sport that we get to see there. But at the same time comes to the news that the IOC is about to decide who's going to host the 2024 and the 2028. Los Angeles will be a finalist for one of those two.
There's a huge move in Los Angeles pushing back on the Olympics being there, right? They don't want the militarization that comes with security for the games – but actually never leaves once the games go away. They don't want the expense for the city when the money is actually ending up in pockets of corporations. They don't want the displacement of people, the gentrification that comes with that. Olympics are really bad for host cities. So like, what do you guys think of this? I'm so conflicted by the Olympics! I'm super excited about the sport part of it, but like, how do we even think about it when we're talking about people's lives on the other side of that?
Shireen: I love rugby, and I'm so excited that this is happening. Rugby sevens is incredible, and not just because Canada is ranked in the top three. *Cough* Yay, Canada. I also think that the Olympics, in addition to so many other issues about it, are really a little bit behind. I mean, for a while there was conversation about sports not being featured. Like, squash for example was up in the air. There was some that were taken out. And I think that if anything, we've seen that – and Jess, you can speak really well to this – the Olympics is actually a place to showcase where sports are not widely featured in the world. And it's a place for amateur athletes to actually show the world their talent and skill.
That's super important. Rugby sevens is one of them. I think that badminton, for example, is another. Archery for women, like rifle shooting, these kinds of things are huge sports in certain regions of the world. And like, for example, in Iran, rifle shooting is huge for women there. Like, the culture is incredible. And that's not something that's widely known, and this is an opportunity, amongst all the mess and the corruption and disgustingness of mega events, to be able to share those sports cultures. And I think anything that amplifies women and gets them more cash money, I'm all about that.
Julie: Last year I wrote about Rio and what the Olympic games were costing them, and there was a great Real Sports piece about Rio and the IOC and what happens to cities who take on the Olympics, specifically what had happened in Sochi, what had happened in Beijing, to the arenas, what the cost…All these improvements that are supposedly going to come with the Olympics that never wind up coming, and all the money and all the things that fall by the wayside to host the Olympic Games. I don't know how Los Angeles or any city in America right now is in any kind of position to host the Olympic Games. And, you know, we bid for it in Chicago, and it was so infuriating because there's no money for schools, there's no money for infrastructure, there's no money to improve transportation. Yet we can come up with $500 billion or whatever it costs to host the Olympics? It was absolutely insane.
And now there was recently just a piece, and I'll have to find out who wrote it to put it in the show notes, about the increased gentrification that comes along with the Olympic Games. So, you take impoverished neighborhoods, you buy them all up, you knock everything down, you build condos. And when the Olympics are gone, you sell those condos for a couple million dollars apiece and a bunch of rich people move in. So, there's nothing good about the Olympics right now. And one of the points that Real Sports made was that basically the IOC is making the so unmanageable and so expensive that the only countries that are going to be able to host this are countries with like fascist regimes, where they can do whatever they want to do with the money and they don't really care about taking care of the people. So, the whole thing is a mess, and I really hope that Los Angeles winds up not getting them. Brenda?
Brenda: Well, it's interesting to look at Rio a year out and what has happened. Basically, most of the constructions that were put into place for the Olympics in 2016 are struggling to be maintained. I mean, no one wants to take them over. They’re real money pits. And so for example, Rio put in $20 million into repairing a golf course. And I don't know if you know much about Brazil, but let's just say golf is really not the national sport. And they can't attract anyone. And so it’s cost Rio…It's on the brink of bankruptcy. I think it's just really important to learn from history and to take a look at those stadiums. If you're going to do it, at least make a plan to try to empower youth organizations in the city. Now, the problem is these people can't be trusted because they always say that and they never do it. Maracanã, already about I think 10 to 15% of the seats have been torn up and eaten by worms – and that's a year out, you know? So, these are just too big to maintain.
Julie: Jessica?
Jessica: All of that is so true, right? And so I think one of the things I have with the tension of the Olympics – mega events in general, World Cups as well – is like, there's nothing. You can't defend that, what the Olympics does to the place that it goes into and the people. At the same time, I mean, I've written about this too, this tension with how important the Olympics and say like the Women's World Cup are to women's sport. They are necessary to grow women's sport throughout the world. And we know how important sport is to women's wellbeing and their health and their position in society and all those sorts of things.
So, for me, the thing I keep coming back to is, you know, there's a part of me that really believes we should not have the Olympics the way that they are now. We have to figure out some other way to do this. But in ending something like the Olympics or the World Cup, we would really need to think about what we do with women's sport in order to continue to give it a platform, because women around the world need that. So, you know, that tension, I don't know what to do with it, but it's something I think a lot about.
Julie: I think that's a great point. And Brenda, really quickly, did you just say the seats have been torn up and eaten by worms? Did I hear you correctly?
Brenda: Yes. If you can believe it. I know I'm prone to exaggeration, but in this case not. They are literally being eaten by worms. And Rio is struggling to try to keep up those extra seats that were put in Maracanã, which is one of the largest soccer stadiums in the world, a really legendary place. So if you can keep that up, those smaller venues are really going to collapse.
Julie: I find worms to be terrifying.
Brenda: They’re gross.
Shireen: Just to sort of follow up with what Jess is saying, one of my personal struggles has always been with, do I love the sport and I hate what it stands for? We saw the militarization in London. We saw gentrification in Vancouver. And this happens a lot, and it doesn't only happen in a lot of discussions about human rights violations in Beijing. And then we're seeing discussions of like offenses against LGBTQ communities and human rights abuses in Sochi. But people forget that it happens in North America, and that really irritates me because it's actually a huge problem. But then I struggle, because I really want to support these amateur athletes. Like in Canada, I absolutely love the Canadian women's national hockey team, and the Olympics and the world championships are really a place for them to shine, considering they get the attention. The entire country rallies behind them. And these are women, for the most part, who are not paid in the CWHL. So this is really a place where they can work to get some type of money.
But at the same time, I'm like, I love you, but I hate the Olympics with a passion, especially like I said, the militarization we saw in Rio. It’s really terrifying in how that affects already marginalized folks – people of color and those who are poor. Back in 2014, with the FIFA World Cup, I really struggled leading up to it. Like, am I going to watch this, knowing what I know about that event? And then I sort of discussed it with my family. I said, you know what? I'm not watching. I can't support it. And they're like, okay, then you can sit in the basement alone, because we are all going to be watching that. So, I really…This is something that I continue to struggle with, and I would be up for any listener suggestions on how to handle it, because it's something I still grapple with.
Julie: Right. And I think that's the problem with the Olympics, right? We know all these horrible things leading up to this, where we are like, you know, how can I support this? But then the games start and there's the grandeur and the opening ceremonies and this feeling of the whole world coming together, and you see how amazing the athletes are, and you learn all their stories, and it's hard to put all the rest of that away and just focus on, “I'm not going to watch because this is totally exploitive of nations of people.” And that's the problem with it, is that the games themselves are so amazing and such a great couple of weeks for the entire world that it’s hard to sort of stick to your principles.
I spent much of my youth dreaming about going to the Olympics in either gymnastics or diving, and I still love the Olympics. I cry at the opening ceremonies every single time. But I try to remember at the same time that, you know, what's going on for those who aren't in the ceremony for the opening Olympics and what their lives are going to be like. But it is a really, really tough thing to try to get around. I totally agree with you. Brenda, do you want to have the final word?
Brenda: Yeah. I just wanted to say that this discussion is so important to me because I have this line, which is, well, even if it's politically horrible, I want women to be able to do it. [laughs] And so it's this really crazy feminist conundrum where you're like, even if it sucks, I want women to be able to exploit people just like men? No, but it's complicated. And those human interest stories are partly what makes women really validated in sport. And the Olympics does that so well. So it catches you every single time. And I think Katie Ledecky, just to pull it full circle to what Jessica started with, you know, the 1500 meter world record is 15 minutes long. 15 minutes. And people said women can't swim 15 minutes. It's ridiculous.
And so you're struggling to get into a place that's complicated, and it's just really important, I think, even though we don't really care for the politics of it, and they're important to emphasize that women still need to be respected within that realm.
Julie: All right. Let's move on to topic two. This week, there was a really disturbing story that came out of youth soccer. Everyone was talking about this story this week, from women's national team members all the way down to sportswriters and even parents of kids who play soccer. Shireen, do you want to tell us about this one?
Shireen: Thanks, Julie. So, this is a story of eight year old Mili Hernandez. Mili is amazing. She's a little footballer, and she has short hair. And you're probably wondering why I'm discussing her hairstyle, but for some reason the tournament in what she wanted to enter, at Springfield Soccer Club, decided that Mili looked like a boy. Mili is eight. And they decided that she looked like a boy and couldn't continue, and rightfully chaos ensues, because this is ridiculous. And her father, Gerardo Hernandez, was very proud of the way that she handled it because she not only is eight, but she actually plays on a team for 11 year olds. And so she's super skilled and loves soccer, and she was crying after.
This really broke my heart, because eight is such a tremendous age where young girls are exploring the idea of sport, they’re exploring sport itself and their skill level is changing. And for her to be able to play up three years means that she's so good. And I mean, the emphasis isn't that she's good which is why she should play. Everybody should play. But what that will tell her, how that pushes back against her and what society tells us athletes need to look like.
And what ended up happening was soccer greats, to the likes of Abby Wambach and Mia Hamm – Mia Hamm invited her to a tournament, Abby Wambach tweeted at her and said, you know, “I won championships with short hair. You do you.” And this is really important because this is also about representation. And Mili probably knows of these players and she looks up to them, and Mili for me is someone that I look up to. She's a little hero, and not necessarily wanted to be, but just in the fact that she had her heart broken…And I mean, there've been so many discussions about this moving forward and how that particular tournament handled the situation, which was in my opinion really badly. I mean, it's quite frankly a no brainer, particularly because her family came with documentation that she is female. And this really upset, actually, to be honest, when you have to print documentation for an eight year old child. And I understand that there's rules about this and this, but at eight? I'm sorry.
And it also starts a conversation that needs to be had in the world of sports about those who identify as non-binary, and where do they fit in? And they're completely excluded. Katie Barnes of espnW actually wrote a really moving piece about this, that sport was almost like a refuge for them, and in a world where gender norms and tropes are thrown at young folks, sports was really a place for them to go to feel included. And when I think about this…And I'm not sure if Mili identifies as anything, to be honest, but the idea is that our society is so steeped in this toxic culture of branding that they're going to exclude an eight year old child. It was just angering all around, and I think this is a really important thing that the sports community, even at grassroots levels, need to learn how to handle and deal with and understand.
Julie: I’ll jump in. I grew up in the club soccer, travel soccer world, and my kids have played and I've been in tournaments where we're in charge of registering applicants and teams. And I feel like when you put a bunch…And I'm assuming it was parents running this tournament, because it usually is. And I feel like when you put a bunch of parents together like this, you are always just bound to get a completely ridiculous decision like this. But you're right. It was absolutely heartbreaking to read. At eight years old, I mean, you cut everyone's hair off and they all look the same. There's no difference between boys and girls! So just saying, you know, well, “she doesn't necessarily look like a girl to me” is completely ridiculous. But like I said, having worked tournaments before, this does not surprise me at all. None the less heartbreaking.
Brenda: I just want to say really quickly that this also intersects powerfully with race. The fact that you can police brown women's bodies or black women's bodies in a way these associations don't go after…I mean, Caster Semenya, Dutee Chand, all the way down to youth sports. It also has to do with their arrogance and the way in which race plays in to their assumptions about kids, because we see over and over again that it disproportionately affects girls and women of color. So, I’d just like to throw in there, it hasn't been a big part of the story, but I think it's there. And I think it's really important to consider the fact that this is a Latina girl in the Midwest growing up, and that's also new for them, the association, you know, people who organize youth soccer.
Jessica: Yeah. And I think it's interesting because the tournament director has gone very public with his side of the story, right? And one of the things that he says is that the team had been accused of illegally sharing players and that that was the main rule broken. But the other part of this is that he said that the tournament organizers had received questions from parents of other players from opposing teams about why that team, Mili's team, of the 11 and under team, was allowed to use a boy on the team. Which, like, this idea that it's coming from parents of other players – which goes back to what Brenda said and what Julie said, and also just the intensely competitive way that youth sports works.
I mean, it kind of boggles my mind. I have an eight year old, but he's not really into this kind of thing. I don't really see myself having to be immersed in it. But when I come up against the way that parents think about youth sports in this country, it’s wild to me. And so Mili story is part of that as well. On top of all these other things, it clearly hit a nerve with how female sports players are constantly grappling with their femininity, their identity as human beings as well as athletes, and all these intersecting things. You know, the fact that she's Latina, the Midwest, all these things are coming together in this one moment. And part of it is this opposition from other children's parents! It's just such a complicated, terrible story all around.
Julie: Yeah. And like I said, that doesn't surprise me at all because at these tournaments, every parent is looking at every team and trying to figure out why, you know? Why do they get that kid? Why do they have that kid? Our league that we've played in has mixed teams. So we have boys and girls playing together. But I totally have seen parents at tournaments going and trying to find whatever reason they can to knock out the other team. Shireen, I think we'll give you the final word on this.
Shireen: Well, just to sort of reiterate what everyone's saying, like, I grew up in the same system. I have children in that system. And I actually have a 12 year old child who is six feet tall. So, he looks really…He's awkward and lanky and can't control his body, and he looks 15 and he's absolutely not. And I get parents, “We want to request to see his birth certificate!” And I'm like, first of all, no, because I don't actually carry around his birth certificate. Like Brenda said, the intersections of race and gender identity, because it's a racialized young woman, that they can go and report.
And I think this is moving forward maybe a learning moment for small town soccer things, that soccer organizers and tournament organizers, that you need to learn about this. You need to start weighting non-traditional mainstream sports folks – espnW has them, freelancers. You need to start educating yourselves quickly, because the old school mentality of everything being labeled and categorized nicely isn't going to work. And this isn't going to go well for you if you don't step up your game. If you're able to organize a tournament, you can get on the internet and start reading. Find out from different sources. Use media toolkits. This really isn't that difficult.
And if you still don't know, reach out to the larger state association or someone to ask for help, and this is the other problem: people don't ask for help. They think they know, and you really don't know, so let's move forward. And I hope that, you know, I wish Mili all the best, especially at Mia Hamm's training camp, she's going to have a great time. I'm so excited for her! Like, these are legendary players. And moving forward, I really hope that other small tournaments, and big ones actually, learn from this.
Julie: All right, let's move on to this week's interview. This week, Shireen got the chance to talk with American basketballer Bilqis Abdul-Qaadir. Shireen, you want to tell us about your interview?
Shireen: Thanks, Julie. I love Bilqis so much, and it was such an honor to talk to her. I am so excited to be speaking with Bilqis Abdul-Qaadir. Some of you might know Bilqis from being the top scoring high school player in Massachusetts state history. Not only is she an educator, a mentor, and a coach, she's an incredible basketball player and somebody who I'm very honored to call a friend and a mentor. Thank you so much for being on Burn It All Down, Bilqis.
Bilqis: Thank you for having me. I'm excited.
Shireen: So, let's at the beginning. For those that don't know you, tell me a little bit about how you started playing basketball and the moment, if you have one, that you fell in love with this game.
Bilqis: So, I began playing when I was around four years old. I played all the way up until I was 13 with boys. And it's something that just stuck with me throughout my years. All of my siblings played basketball as well, and I can say that I feel like I fell in love with the sport when I was in eighth grade. And that's when I played my first high school basketball game, and I realized that, you know, the game could take me pretty far and that I could even get a full scholarship to college basketball. That's when I knew that it was something that I truly loved.
Shireen: And that's actually what ended up happening. So, when you got to high school, I think I remember reading that or you told me that you were homeschooled, so your basketball, your varsity basketball was the first school team you played on in grade 9?
Bilqis: Grade 8. So yeah, I was homeschooled all the way up until seventh grade. I went to school eighth grade, and that's when my first actual team, I would say, school team was there.
Shireen: That's awesome. So, after you graduated high school you went off to Memphis.
Bilqis: Yes. So, I was recruited by a lot of mid-major Division I schools. I wanted to be a part of a program that I thought I could help build, and University of Memphis was ideal at the time. However, that was a very interesting time in my life. That four years at the University of Memphis was a growth period for me in a lot of ways. I take a lot from it and I'm glad that it happened. You know, I grew as a player, as a person, and just kind of figured out…I had to figure out a lot about life early on while I was playing the game that I loved. So, it was good that it happened.
Shireen: Just a little bit of backstory for people that might not be aware, Bilqis was one of the basketball players and Muslim women who really rallied around to change a head covering ban that FIBA, the international federation that governs basketball, had implemented. And worked really hard in conjunction with other players and different communities, because the ban was for all head coverings. Like, Jewish men and their kippah. It's also Sikh men and their turbans. Now, Bilqis, when you were in university, you were playing college ball. The hijab wasn't a problem for you when you played, was it?
Bilqis: No, it was definitely not a problem. The only thing I had to do was get a letter of approval from the NCAA organization. They approved that I had to wear certain colors under certain jerseys, and my hijab had to be black to kind of match the color of my hair. And so those were the only guidelines that I had to follow, and it was really easy. It was an easy process.
Shireen: Because we're in the month of Ramadan right now, and for those that don't know, the month of Ramadan is a holy month for Muslims in which they abstain from food or drink. When you were in university playing, did you train during the month of Ramadan while you were in college?
Bilqis: I actually did. Ramadan always kind of fell during…It was still kind of in the summer, around the summer time then when I was in college, and actually one summer we were going to play in Italy on a trip abroad, and I had to practice during days where it was 103 degrees and the gyms were hot. But I did it. I think it's more mind over matter. And the coaches knew that when I felt…I did what I could, and when I felt like I was too thirsty or too tired, I was able to sit out. And there was one time where I almost passed out though. It was my fault. I should’ve stepped out, but when you're playing and you're practicing, you know you're about to go play some very big huge games in another country, you want to give it all you got, and that's what I did. But I'm still here, so I'm okay. [laughs]
Shireen: You are indeed! And we're very grateful you are. So, in terms of after you graduated university, and that's when you really found out…Like, you did a successful program. You had a great career in college. When you found out you couldn't play anymore. What happened at that point? How did you decide to go into an educational career instead? Like, you kept moving, even though the trajectory of what you thought you'd be doing completely shifted. And how did you get through that time? Like, what supports did you have, and how did you get through that? Because getting told that you can't be part of a sport you love is so difficult. So, how did you navigate through that?
Bilqis: I can say that prayer is what really got me through and how I reconnected with my faith at that time, because essentially I had to choose between what I believed as far as covering and playing the sport that I loved. And it was a tough choice. I questioned it a lot. And I found that my true identity was being a Muslim. A Muslim woman at that. And it got me choosing that path, I can say, opened many more doors than maybe basketball would have. And I just remember telling myself that I can't stay in this this slump and stay in this kind of minor depression in a way. And I was offered a job in Memphis, Tennessee at an assignment school, and it was originally as a PE teacher, and then they also needed an athletic director. So I was an AD as well as the PE teacher.
And it just turned out to be something that was very fitting for me. I've always prayed that I wanted a job where I could wear sweats and sneakers every day, [Shireen laughs] and it turned out that's what that was. And so, you know, I'm very thankful. I thank God every day, because, you know, everybody doesn't look forward to their job. And I'm coming out of a slump like I was, not being able to play the sport that I loved, and in stepping into an environment where people just took me in, they understood where I was at, where I was in life. And, you know, the kids just kind of brought that positive energy that I needed, especially at that moment.
Shireen: I'm really lucky to have seen you in a coaching clinic, and the kids are mesmerized, the young girls and boys. The boys look a little scared, but the girls are mesmerized. [laughs]
Bilqis: The boys are intimidated. It's funny.
Shireen: To see them. And I think I've seen you in action and on the court, I've seen clips of you, and it's pretty incredible. And how you were when you were young and you thought you'd finished college and go play pro ball, and then it changed for you to become an athlete activist as well, and a public speaker. And you're phenomenal. Like, you're so engaging, and people are just hanging on to every word. This isn't where you thought you would be though, is it?
Bilqis: It's definitely not where I thought I'd be. And actually, I felt like I was forcefully placed into that position. I mean, it was by choice, but it wasn't really by choice, you know? It was something that I felt like I had to do, and that I had to stand up for it because there was nobody else that was going to do it for me. And you know, once I understood the beauty of it and the beauty behind the struggle, I knew that this was bigger than myself, you know? And I know that when I really made a conscious decision to take on this athlete activist role was when I received a photo from a girl in Indonesia over email, and she told me that she wears what I wear and she wants to do what I do.
And that email I won't forget, because that was the time where I felt like, you know what, there's more than me. And, you know, I have to be unselfish. And I had to do it for everybody else, pretty much, or every other Muslim girl who wants to play a sport, hopefully basketball. But, you know, that's where it kind of took me.
Shireen: The way that you've elevated the game and shared your story has certainly, like, I show a clip of the film Life Without Basketball, and we will link it to our page in the episode so our listeners can see it, is incredibly moving. And you bravely share so much of your story. And I'm really happy that, at this point, FIBA has announced that they've officially rescinded the ban in October 2017. You know, the world of basketball will essentially be open to all women that want to cover and they want to play. What was that feeling like for you, from getting the…I know we were in touch pretty soon after, and I know you were exhausted because we talked and it took a lot out. But what was that moment like from realizing that all the work you and Indira and a lot of the other players had done had really come to fruition and that change was made? What's the feeling like to get that news?
Bilqis: When I found out the rules actually changed, there’s a lot of different emotions that came through me. It's more that I felt like I shouldn't have taken that long. I was grateful for the change, but it was just the type of change that was made, there was really no change, because FIBA should have just approved what everybody has already been wearing. But I understand that it was huge because it's going to open doors for more than just the sport of basketball. You know, the fact that Muslim women are now welcomed in a lot of different spaces that we weren't before is huge. And just to be a part of history and to be a part of change, people don't don't experience that in their lifetime.
So, I'm grateful that I had a hand in something that is…I dunno, that is beautiful, you know? That's the beauty that lies behind that, because whenever I step on the court, people look at me like I'm crazy, you know? But it's time for that to change. It's time for people to see a Muslim woman and say that she blends right in and it's okay. And I think that's what this rule change is going to help with, in all sports. So, I'm excited and I hope that this rule change can impact my career now, you know? Maybe I will play, maybe I won't, I don't know yet.
Shireen: I think it's definitely beautiful, and the change that's made and the way that you've elevated the game is incredible. And that essentially you have changed the face of what basketball can look like, and that's really important. Like, I'm so grateful. I have, you know, I work in a community around sports and young women in sports, and then just knowing you, people get so excited. In fact, my six-year-old nephew saw the t-shirt, the “Muslim girls hoop too,” and he decided he wanted one because it was so cool. And I mean, that's important, not only to teach young girls, but to reinforce to the whole community, to the whole world, that yes, Muslim women definitely belong and are part of this.
There's one story you tell – and I love when you tell this story, it's one of my favorites – about one of your most famous competitions, and that you beat President Barack Obama at this game. And I love this story, because he's pretty good, from what I hear, but you're better, which is kind of fun. [laughs] Could you tell me a little bit about that?
Bilqis: Yeah, so, I was invited to the Easter egg roll that's held at the White House, and I was invited to help work the basketball camp/clinic that president Obama had in his backyard. He has a nice court in his backyard, full court. It’s awesome. And he comes and makes an appearance, and there was like some tennis going on. There's cameras everywhere. NBA, WNBA Washington teams were both there. And of all the people, he comes up to me and he puts his hand on my shoulder and gets everybody's attention and he’s like, “This girl right here has been talking smack for five years now, and it’s time to settle it.” And we ending up playing a game of horse, to letter H, and I was actually missing at first, and then finally I made the shot, and because I made it, he had to follow up with a make, and then he ended up missing.
Everybody kinda just clapped it up and he kind of silenced the crowd again, and he said, no, but she's the true champ, regardless. And I think he meant that in a lot of different ways. And it was huge because people, when I first got there, people were looking at me like, who is this girl? Because I had the “Muslim girls hoop too” shirt on, my hijab on. So they knew that I was different and probably didn’t belong. And when he came up to me, like, the level of respect that everybody kind of started to give me after we played, it was just crazy. And you know, to be recognized by him, on that type of platform, while I'm representing Muslim women, Muslims in general and Muslim athletes, it was just awesome. It was something that I will never forget.
Shireen: It didn't occur to you to essentially even hesitate to beat him, did it?
Bilqis: No. [laughter] Like, I went into competitive mode immediately when he asked if I wanted to play. I'm like, I'm not about to lose to this man out of here in front of this…That would have been the headline. [laughs]
Shireen: You weren't going to let that happen. No, that's amazing. So, what you're doing right now is you moved back home and you're working on your non-profit, Muslim Girls Hoop Too. Can you tell me what that means to you and what this organization will do?
Bilqis: Right now, I think I'm just going to take a break from everything. It’s been a long eight years that I've been away from home, and I miss family. I miss just not worrying about what's next, even though it's hard to do. That's what my main focus is right now. And I'm hoping that I can do some more speaking and some more basketball clinics and just try to, I don't know, continue to have an influence or to inspire and get girls, but especially young Muslim women, involved in sport, because I think it's very important, not only to just be physically fit or physically active, but it helped me with my faith and my belief system. I truly believe that I can use my story to help others. So, God willing, that's what my path will kind of go for right now.
Shireen: That's amazing. And we definitely look forward to seeing where you go. You have huge fans at Burn It All Down, and I can't wait, inshallah, to see where you go and we'll be supporting you all the way. So, thank you so much for being on the show, and I wish you a really happy rest of Ramadan. Lots of rest. [laughs] I know it's a tough month and your schedule is messed up.
Bilqis: Well, thank you for having me. And I feel the same for you.
Shireen: Thank you, my friend. We'll talk soon.
Bilqis: All right.
Julie: Now it's time for everyone's favorite segment, we like to call it the burn pile, where we pile up all the things we've hated this week in sports and set them aflame. Jessica, do you want to start this week?
Jessica: Yeah, I'd love to. So, earlier this week, Major League Baseball opened an investigation into whether the Cubs’ shortstop, Addison Russell, had abused his wife. So, on Wednesday – it's kind of a strange story on how this all unfolded – on Wednesday, Russell's wife, Melissa, posted a photo on Instagram where she said she’s gonna leave him because he cheated on her. And then in another post, a friend of hers on a private account wrote that Russell had, quote, “mentally and physically abused his wife” and that he had hit her in front of two of the children. All of those posts have now been deleted, but Major League Baseball opened an investigation after they got a hold of them. So on Thursday, the Cubs said that Russell had to stay home when they hosted the Rockies, but he was back on Friday. He didn't play. But then by Saturday, he was back in the lineup.
In a written statement, Russell’s denied the allegations, of course. On Friday, he appeared in front of the media. So, I know that sports beat reporters are not experts in domestic violence. But Cubs beat reporters, they’ve actually had some time to get used to someone accused of domestic violence being on the team, when Aroldis Chapman played for them last season. And yet, and yet, on Friday, here they were, with Russell in front of them. And these are the first three questions that they asked him: “How are you feeling? And are you looking to being back on the baseball field?” And then this one's real, you guys: “Addison, sadness is one emotion. Any other emotions from anything else that's happened the past few days?” And then the third one: “Was it affecting your play?”
So, you guys, I know that it's hard to talk to people about difficult topics. Like, trust me, I really know this. But sadness is one emotion?! How are you feeling? Was it affecting your play? I'm not even sure what these reporters were actually hoping to get out of this line of questioning. So, Russell loves baseball. He's good at baseball. Baseball has adversity. He won't answer personal questions. That is what we learned from them asking these questions. I mean, who's surprised? Nothing. I would rather him have to answer questions about whether anyone from MLB has contacted him. How long is this investigation gonna take? That kind of stuff. I mean, shit. Maybe don't ask him anything at all. But anything, anything else than what happened on Friday. I mean, burn that, just burn those questions.
Julie: Brenda, want to go next?
Brenda: This week, I would like to throw on the burn pile University of North Carolina Chapel Hill and its athletic director, of course metaphorically, Bubba Cunningham, who have worked to squash a course proposed by historian Jay Smith. His course was called Big Time College Sports and the Rights of Athletes, and the administration found it upsetting to them, and controversial, despite the fact it's being offered by a history department from an historian with a PhD who actually does quite a lot of serious research on sports and the university system. Bubba Cunningham proposed because he had an MBA and had worked in sports for 20 years that he teach the course. So, he is a less biased person than historian Jay Smith. He proposed that he would take over for Jay Smith.
And I find this so distressing on so many levels. The idea that an athletics director would try to take over a course. It's like, well, why doesn't Jay Smith coach the UNC basketball team? How about that? I mean, who cares? What does specialism and 20 years of dedication and research to teaching mean? Well, to Bubba Cunningham, evidently it means absolutely nothing if it has to do with embarrassing him in his program. Of course this has to do with the ongoing scandal in which the athletics department put different courses on the books to help athletes stay eligible. In any case, I'd like to put the whole system on the burn pile, but especially this week, Bubba Cunningham.
Julie: Burn, burn it. All right. Shireen?
Shireen: Federico Valverde actually took a page out of the book of how to be super racist and offensive and made a racist gesture during a goal celebration at the under 20 world cup in South Korea. There is a photo of him on the pitch actually using his hands to slant his eyes. His response was, “It is not a racist celebration. It was a private celebration for friends.” So, he actually tweeted this out in Korean. And I'm sitting here thinking, how was this a private celebration for friends when you're actually on the pitch being recorded doing this? I mean, I have many questions, and I still don't understand why this is considered a good idea. Because it's not. And sincerely, friends of Burn It All Down and listeners, I really, really hope this is the last time I have to burn this particular gesture down. I can't believe this happened two weeks in a row. So, I want to take it, I want to pour lighter fluid all over it and then let it rip.
Brenda: Burn it.
Julie: Okay, I'll go last this week. I try to really make these things not personal things, but the one thing…There’s a trend happening all across social media that I think bears mentioning. You know, when we started this podcast, before we'd even posted, or maybe directly after we posted our first episode, we saw an influx of reviews on our Apple Podcasts page of one star reviews from people talking about how terrible we all were and we were horrible feminists ruining America. And Maggie Hendricks and I started a show in Chicago this week on 670 The Score, and we put up a Facebook page and immediately saw the exact same thing happen – a bunch of guys running over, talking about how terrible we are and posting one star reviews to try to tank our rating.
And I've heard from other women in the media this week about how this happens anytime they set up any kind of social media account or streaming audio account to try to promote their show. This is a real quick one, but to the men who have nothing better to do in their lives than follow women around on the internet and down rate the work that they put out there just to try to harass them and make them look bad in front of other people, I'm pouring gasoline all over your personal psyche and lighting it on fire.
Brenda: Burn it.
Jessica: Burn.
Shireen: Light it up.
Julie: All right, now that we've burned everything that we didn't like this week, let's get onto some good news and talk about this week's badass woman of the week. Who’s got her?
Jessica: I do. So, this week's badass woman of the week is Jeļena Ostapenko. I love this story so much, you guys. I'm so excited to be talking about this today. So, Ostapenko, 20 years old, she won her first ever tennis title this weekend! Her first ever tennis title was the French Open. She beat #3 Simona Halep in three sets. It's an amazing story. She was actually down an entire set and she was down by three games in the second set, and she came all the way back, rallied all the way to win the championship. She's the first Latvian to win a grand slam singles title. She's the first unseeded woman. She was not seeded to win the French Open in the open era.
She also – yay! – has female coaches. She has long been coached by her mother, and she added the Spanish player Anabel Medina Garrigues to her coaching team in April. With this championship, Ostapenko will climb from #47 in the world to #12. And there's just this last really fun fact. So, the last woman to win her first tour title at a grand slam was Barbara Jordan of the United States at the 1979 Australian Open. The last man to manage it was Gustavo Kuerten, who won the 1997 French Open on the day that Ostapenko was born. So, congrats Jeļena! It's so exciting. Congratulations.
Shireen: Amazing. That's so awesome.
Brenda: What a badass.
Julie: Do we have honorable mentions?
Shireen: As a huge soccer fan of the Canadian soccer program, I really wanted to pay homage to retiring soccer players and those being inducted into the hall of fame in Toronto. I wanted to shout out a couple who are really, really important. So, Josée Bélanger and Jonelle Filigno, Robyn Gayle, Kaylyn Kyle, Lauren Sesselmann – all of whom actually played in 2012 and Rio's 2016 star of the team, the bronze medal winning team, Josée Bélanger –they're retiring and being inducted into the hall of fame. So, yay for them. These are players who are incredible and have been part of a really amazing program.
I don't know if people are aware of it, but in 2011, leading up to the Olympics in London, there was quite a bit of a drama on the team and they changed coaches mid-stream and John Herdman came onboard. So, these players actually really worked hard as a unit and built each other up again from the inside. And I can't say enough about this team and this program. I love you so much.
Julie: Okay. And finally, we want to add one more badass woman this week. It's our own Lindsay Gibbs, sportswriter of ThinkProgress, who couldn't be with us this morning, but she celebrated a birthday yesterday. So we wanted to wish her a happy birthday and just tell her that we think that for us, she will always, always remain our biggest badass woman of every week.
All: Happy birthday, Lindsay!
Shireen: On behalf of Jessica, Brenda, Lindsay, and myself, we want to congratulate our own Julie DiCaro for her Gracie award win this past week for her involvement with the #MoreThanMean project. We are so proud of you, Julie, and we love you so much, and are constantly in awe of your bravery in helping combat online abuse of women in sports media and speaking out about this very important issue. Congratulations to you and the rest of the #MoreThanMean team.
Julie: All right. That's it for this week's episode of Burn It All Down. Burn It All Down is produced by Brian Dusek and lives on SoundCloud, but can also be heard on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Google Play, and TuneIn. We always appreciate your reviews and feedback, so feel free to subscribe, rate and tell us what you like or didn't like about the show. We hope you'll follow us on Twitter @burnitdownpod and on Facebook at Burn It All Down, and to check out our website, head on over to burnitalldownpod.com. That's where you'll find all our show notes and links to all the topics we discuss each week. And of course you can email us at burnitalldownpod@gmail.com.
And please take some time to check out our GoFundMe page and consider making a small donation. We really want to improve the podcast and make it a sustainable endeavor. We've already been able to get better mics for those of us who didn't have them, and we're really grateful to everyone who's contributed so far. For Jessica Luther, Shireen Ahmed and Brenda Elsey, I'm Julie DiCaro. We’ll see you next week.