Episode 90: Coaching and Women/ Women Coaching, Ally Quinney on Women in Combat Sports, and SPORTING JOY

*This week’s episode is dedicated to the MSU and USA Gymnastic survivors as it is one year anniversary of the Nassar’s sentencing hearings*

Shireen, Brenda, Lindsay, and Jessica open the show up with a discussion on the Gillette’s advertisement and male tears [2:58]. Then the crew talks about coaching and what can be better, and how women are included or excluded [7:29], Brenda interviews Florida State University doctoral student Ally Quinney on the UFC, MMA and the history of women in combat sports [19:36], and then the team talks about specific athletes and moments in sports that bring them joy [36:03].

Of course, you’ll hear the Burn Pile [50:22], our Bad Ass Woman of the Week, starring Haley Carter and Kelly Lindsey [1:01:33], and what is good in our worlds [1:05:19].

For links and a transcript…


“With his ‘spygate’ PowerPoint, Marcelo Bielsa has enhanced his legend” https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jan/17/marceo-bielsa-spygate-powerpoint-leeds-united

“‘I pick the team on penis size’ – Female coach’s brilliant response to ill-judged question” https://sports.yahoo.com/pick-team-penis-size-female-coachs-brilliant-response-ill-judged-question-143004607.html

“Matildas coach Alen Stajcic sacked five months before World Cup” https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jan/19/matildas-coach-alen-stajcic-faces-uncertain-future-ahead-of-world-cup

“Why Isn’t All Gymnastics This Fun?” https://slate.com/culture/2019/01/katelyn-ohashi-ucla-viral-gymnastics-floor-exercise-video.html

“A Brief History Of Viral Gymnastics Routines” https://deadspin.com/a-brief-history-of-viral-gymnastics-routines-1831783611

“Minnesota United interested in Argentine goalkeeper Agustin Rossi” https://www.twincities.com/2019/01/14/minnesota-united-interested-in-argentine-goalkeeper-agustin-rossi/

“South Korea’s Speedskating Community Faces Reckoning After Rape Allegations” https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/world/asia/south-korea-speedskating-shim-suk-hee-rape.html

“UFC’s Dana White defends Greg Hardy’s place in Fight Night 143: ‘He’s paid his dues’’ https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/01/18/ufcs-dana-white-defends-greg-hardys-place-fight-night-hes-paid-his-dues/?utm_term=.da61141f6cad

“Jasmin Paris becomes first woman to win 268-mile Montane Spine Race” https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jan/17/jasmin-paris-first-woman-win-gruelling-286-mile-montane-spice-race-ultrarunning

“Gallimore Announces 2019 Will Be Final Campaign” https://gohuskies.com/news/2019/1/15/womens-soccer-gallimore-announces-2019-will-be-final-campaign.aspx

“Khadjou Sambe: The Surfer with Olympic Dreams” https://www.outsideonline.com/2362951/khadjou-sambe-surfer-olympic-dreams

“Woman Who Coaches Men’s Soccer Team Responds To Sexist Question: “I Pick My Team On Dick Length”” https://deadspin.com/woman-who-coaches-mens-soccer-team-responds-to-sexist-q-1831818018

“Misty Copeland and Calvin Royal III Will Be the First Black Couple to Dance Lead Roles for the American Ballet Theatre” https://www.becauseofthemwecan.com/blogs/botwc-firsts/misty-copeland-and-calvin-royal-iii-will-be-the-first-black-couple-to-dance-lead-roles-for-the-american-ballet-theatre

“Orlando Pride Forward Alex Morgan Named CONCACAF Female Player of the Year” https://www.orlandocitysc.com/post/2019/01/15/orlando-pride-forward-alex-morgan-named-concacaf-female-player-year


Shireen: Dear flamethrowers, it is the first-year anniversary of the Nassar sentencing hearings, and we wanted to dedicate today’s show to the survivors, who would also like to acknowledge that interim president and former Michigan governor John Angler finally resigned, and now the survivors can finally start healing, as Lindsay wrote in a piece for Think Progress. We at Burn It All Down are in solidarity with the survivors, and we are in awe of their resilience. To quote Lindsey Lemke on the mental and physical toll that this has taken, and been prolonged by people like Angler, “But if we had to do victim impact statements again to keep the ball rolling, I’m trying to change the culture, I’m sure that 90% of people who are trying to make change would want to do it, because that’s how dedicated we are and devoted we are to trying to change the culture.”

[Intro Music]

Shireen: Welcome to this week’s episode of Burn It All Down. It’s the feminist sports podcast you need. On this week’s panel we have Jessica Luther, independent writer, general slayer, and author of Unsportsmanlike Conduct: College Football and the Politics of Rape in Austin Texas. Brenda Elsey, associate professor of history and undeniable genius at Hofstra University in Hudson Valley, New York. The indomitable and brilliant Lindsay Gibbs, sportswriter at Think Progress in Washington, DC. And I’m Shireen Ahmed, freelance sportswriter, cat lover and soon to be birthday girl in Toronto, Canada.

Jessica: Yay.

Shireen: Before we start, I would like to think our patrons for their generous support, and to remind our new flamethrowers about our Patreon campaign. You pledge a certain amount monthly, as low as $2 and as high as you want, to become an official patron of the podcast. In exchange for your monthly contribution, you get access to special rewards. With the price of a latte a month, you can get access to extra segments of the podcast, a monthly newsletter, and an opportunity to record on the Burn Pile, only available to those in our Patreon community. So far, we have been able to solidify funding for proper editing, transcripts. But are really reaching, hoping to reach our dream of hiring a producer to help us with the show. Burn It All Down is a labor of love, and we believe in this podcast; and having a producer to help us as we go would be amazing. And we are so grateful for your support.

This week show, number 90 we will be discussing coaching. Women in coaching, all kinds of coaching. How men ruin coaching. Brenda has the fabulous interview with Ally Quinney, and we will be discussing some positivity and joy in sport. But before we go there, let’s talk about Gillette, MeToo advertisement. Tell me your thoughts, and how full your mugs of male tears are my friends.

Jessica: Overflowing! They’re overflowing Shireen! In the best way possible, I could watch it all day. The men sad about this.

Shireen: Linds?

Lindsay: Well okay, first of all I do have to quote my editor, Jason Lincoln at Think Progress who wrote a piece this week that was like, by the way everyone Gillette’s not really trying sell us on fixing toxic masculinity it’s just trying to sell razors. I have a problem with all brand wokeness. Like I think it can be overdone. But it was entertaining to see the backlash this week for men who were horrified at just the small suggestion that maybe they act a tiny bit better. But I guess, do we wanna recap in case anyone missed it what exactly this advertisement was Shireen?

Shireen: Sure, absolutely. Brenda, I don’t know if you wanna do this. Do you wanna do a recap? Because I think your synopsis of everything was brilliant.

Brenda: Well it’s really short. It shows a bunch of boys behaving badly and bullying up until men; you know in a business setting, cutting women off. It has this sort of suggestion in it that somehow — it’s not a suggestion, it’s pretty forthright I guess — that men should stop being sexist and also shave.

Jessica: And intervene! There’s a lot of intervention in the commercial.

Brenda: Yes! Yes! It shows a kind of alternative model as well. Of how men could behave. I guess I’m just … I saw it maybe twice. And I just am riled that it’s controversial.

Jessica: Yeah, I mean that’s what’s so … I like it. I mean capitalism is capitalism. And Gillette’s gonna make a commercial one way or the other. So if this is what they’ve decided to do with it, like more power to them. I loved it. My favorite tweet about it, I think it was the only thing; I think I RT’d it. Was a guy named James Hamblin, and he wrote “There’s no perfect test for the level of insecurity where masculinity becomes toxic, but basically it’s when you feel personally attacked by that Gillette ad.”

Brenda: That’s perfect.

Jessica: People that are taking, that get upset at that suggestion the way that Brenda described it’s perfect. It’s being nicer, like your upset that a commercial asked you to be a nicer man? It just shows how pervasive. How men just expect to get away with shitty behavior and not be called on it. And I loved all the commentary around like men being mad that a commercial’s telling them how to feel and act. As if like all of commercials do not exist to tell women how to feel and act. Like how would you feel ladies if a commercial told you how to feel?

It’s like literally-

Brenda: Not so fresh!

Jessica: Yeah, like they literally tell us to clean out vaginas. Like without I mean, just uhhh, anyway.

Shireen: For me one of the funniest tweets was Dr. Lou Moore had quote tweeted a picture of someone who put their razor in the toilet, saying this is what they were gonna do. And he just wrote, this is some of the stupidest shit I’ve ever seen. And for me that was so funny because it’s like why would you put razor? What is wrong with you amongst many things? It was just, it was some comical relief. But it was also just the amount of enraged men and like this feigned horror in sort of insult was just ridiculous.

Jessica: I mean I hope that it runs. I see it on the internet, I’m like is this actually gonna be on television in opposition to things like the Super Bowl? Like places where we actually find issues with toxic masculinity? Then to me it will be more than just you know a shot campaign that we all talk about on Twitter. So that’ll be interesting to see.

Shireen: Brenda can you take us into our first segment on coaching please.

Brenda: So, the coach, I was thinking about; I thought a lot about coaching this week. And as far as I can tell the coach is pretty revered in every sport. You know the idea the coach can change teams, clubs, individual players lives in profound ways. But in each of those sports that I was trying to think through the coach works very differently. So I know this is obvious, but in basketball and US football coaching has a much more hands on component during the games than let’s say soccer, football.

And one of the most revered coaches in global football this week is Marcelo … well not this week is Marcelo Bielsa. I don’t know how familiar he is to listeners. Currently he’s with Leeds United and most famously turned the Chilean national team from unknown to one of the world’s best. There’s books on him. You know just books, and books, and books. And there’s people like Pep Guardiola that will say I don’t care if he ever wins a game, he’s the best coach of all time.

His philosophy is attacking, pressing, never speculating, possession, aggression. And the issue that most people think technically he has the best philosophy. But he actually wears players out. That there’s players can’t do what he wants. So when teams tend to lose, mostly people think it’s because they’re exhausted. Not because of his tactics right? Just we don’t have the human capital to do what he wants. It’s really interesting. But anyway, a “loco” as Bielsa is called he’s Argentine was caught doing a bit of spying this past week. It’s opened a whole lot of feelings about coaching. You know just in the media.

Last week we talked to the Rooney Rule and the NFL, this week there’s been a series of troubling accusations of abuse perpetrated by coaches. And it’s just really an interesting mystique around coaches. I think that’s partly why it’s been so difficult for women to break into coaching. And I just wanna mention that women are not usually given the opportunity also to write about coaching. Not only to be coaching, but during this Bielsa story I didn’t see any women reporting on his press conference. So there’s a notion that women can’t understand coaching enough to do it. And not even enough to write about it.

It’s been kind of an interesting week, I wanted to sort of segue there’s a lot going on in terms of the coach as a subject.

Shireen: Yeah, thank you so much for that Brenda. I was following Bielsa and the memes and the you know video clips of his presser. He basically, when he announced his presser there was two opinions in the football world; one was that he was going to resign. Because it’s just considered non-camaraderie to go and spy on your opponent. But he has admitted that he does it, and he actually set a power point presentation with an I don’t give a fuck attitude. Which was like, so he’s basically like a hero. Then he went, and this was my favorite thing though-

Brenda: Well because he’s basically telling everyone how to beat opponents.

Shireen: Yeah, and he is; and I think that there’s some transparency. He’s basically in precedent, this is unprecedented particular in a very stuffy league. Like the premier league that sort of touts itself on its traditions, draconian as they may be. But so he goes up to Zidane and he’s like I just wanna give you some advice, if you wanna have that discussion about the technical training.

I was in awe at this video like this is Zidane, and he was just-

Brenda: It’s lovely. It’s a lovely video. It’s from a while ago and it resurfaced, and it’s just lovely to see Bielsa mentoring Zidane and Zidane expecting it.

Shireen: Yeah, and I mean this is what I love about; we rarely see that type of humility in coaching. And it’s just, it was really … and you know I love anything with Zidane, except if he ends up going to Juve. Jess, what are your thoughts?

Jessica: I really liked what Brenda said in her intro about how we think about coaching. I talk about this, I wrote about this not that long ago about how we hold up coaches. Like we assume that they are good people just because they coach. But on the gendered aspect of that, like I think it’s really interesting to think about how we code coaching as masculine. That we hold up borderline, or even abusive behavior as good and you know you can’t but think about someone like Bobby Knight, the famous basketball coach who used to throw chairs and scream in his players faces.

That kind of behavior as good, like that that’s what coaching should look like. And that just listening to Brenda talk about that idea of that women don’t get to coach and part of it is we can’t imagine them as coaches? And I do think it’s because we have a really set idea of what it … not just what they should look like but how they should behave? And all those behaviors that we tend to hold up as good, we also code as masculine? So then you’re breaking through all that stuff as well as sort of all the other gender things that come along with that and I don’t know. I have to sit with this, but that really got my mind spinning.

Shireen: Lindsay?

Lindsay: Yeah, I think it’s fitting that we started this conversation with this episode. This episode was a conversation about toxic masculinity. And I think that coaching itself, has taken on so many of the characteristics of toxic masculinity and become almost like a harbinger for it. And you know, of course I’m sitting here fully paying attention to the episode, but also keeping an eye on the Australian Open because it’s tennis time. And I’m always keeping an eye on the Australian Open.

One thing that’s really stuck with me this week is how last week we talked about Andy Murray saying goodbye to tennis and you know possibly playing his last match. Go back and listen to last week’s episode. It was a very happy one. But one of the things that it inspires me so much, because Amelie Mauresmo; who he hired to be his coach. You know it was a huge deal, you know top tennis player hires a woman to be his coach. And she now, is not only coaching the France Davis cup team, you know since he’s been gone. But she’s not coaching Lucas Pouille, who’s in the fourth round here. So she’s still around as coach.

So, Andy Murray making that one decision to hire the coach, to hire a female coach has now given her; and of course, she might have gotten it everywhere, but it just takes this once person often making changes. And thinking outside the box. And thinking about coaching in a different way that isn’t tied to toxic masculinity that can really change things. So I think it’s really cool that we get to see a different part of Andy Murray’s legacy on display here at this Australian Open. And I also wanna give a shout out to, and excuse me if I butcher this name, this one I’m gonna say. But I think it’s Imke Wübbenhorst? Who became, so she’s the first female coach in the top five tiers of German football.

She hasn’t even coached in the first match, but I think this goes back to show what Brenda was saying which is the fact well it’s mostly men who are covering sports media or not … mostly men in sports media. So who are at these press conferences. Who are dealing with these issues of gender in coaching right? Who are kind of influencing these, who are covering cases of toxic masculinity in coaching. And not calling it out as such, because they might not see it as such. And then they’re also the ones who are interviewing these women when they get the rare opportunity to be coaches of men’s teams. And they don’t know what questions to ask, so in one of her first press conferences at German newspaper Welt asked her how she dealt with walking into the locker room and asked her if she had to make sure her players were covered up?

Like this was an actual question from a German newspaper? And she very deadpanned just said, “Of course not, I’m professional. I pick the team on penis size.”

Brenda: So good! It’s so-

Shireen: Amazing.

Lindsay: Doesn’t that just get to everything? Like summed it all up there? I remember when Amelie Mauresmo first started coaching Murray there was all this talk of “HUH! Well how do you guys talk in the locker room?” You know she can’t come to the locker room, and Andy Murray was like I walk outside the locker room and talk there. Like it’s not that big of a deal.

Shireen: Well Linds I love what you said about Andy Murray’s legacy and how you know amplifying and having a woman in that position can change things. And that’s something I just wanted to touch upon quickly. Haley Carter who we had on the show, assistant coach of the Afghanistan Women’s Team actually tweeted this out. She actually mentioned that the US licensing has their course and the US Soccer Pro license has 10 people taking this course right now. But not a single participant is a woman. That US has have sent. Nor is it any of those 10 people are those who coach women.

When we talk about making change, this is something that can be considered small. But I find it very hard to believe that in the entire country of the United States of America they couldn’t find one woman to be interested in this licensing course? And that moving forward says a lot. It says how we value women as coaches, and in leadership roles, et cetera, et cetera. I don’t know, Jess?

Jessica: Yeah, I just wanted to add one last thing, and this built on a lot of work that Lindsay has been doing over the last year or so. One of the big discussions of all the things that have come out of the Nassar stuff, and reforms to like Olympic style sports. One of the big things is coaching. That there are problems with how on the youth level right? They regulate coaches and deal with abusive coaches and coaches that have relationships with their athletes.

I mean, that this is just … I feel like we’re always in moments and I just miss them. But it feels like we’re in a moment just in general where we are really reevaluating the role of coaches and the leeway that we give them and how we think about them in relationship to their athletes and the potential for harm. And we have to constantly remind ourselves about the way that gender plays into this and affects us also as we talked about last week as Brenda mentioned race as well. And so it just feels like it’s everywhere right now.

Shireen: I just wanna end this on a positive note because I’m trying to be really positive. There was a tweet that came up this week by Michael Mulford, and it was just a photo of Jenny Boucek who is this Mavericks assistant coach, sitting with Becky Hammond who is the Spurs. San Antonio Spurs assistant coach. And they were just chatting. And this is NBA, two female assistant coaches. It was just, it gave me life. And I think it was important, and I would like to share it with y’all because it was great. And you know I just stan Becky Hammond. But anyways, that’s about it.

Next up, Brenda has an excellent interview with Ally Quinney.

Brenda: We are so excited to have with us today Ally Quinney on Burn It All Down. She’s a PhD student at Florida State University who studies Gender Issues in eSports and MMA. Welcome to the show Ally.

Ally: Hi.

Brenda: So, at Burn It All Down we have been struggling because we want to keep up more with women in UFC, gender in MMA more broadly. And we are really novices. So we’re excited to get a little bit of your insight into what’s been going on. Could you just tell us a bit about the history of women in UFC or gender in MMA.

Ally: Yeah, so MMA didn’t really become a sport until 1993 and at this time there were no women’s MMA bouts on the MMA cards. And then, in 1995 the first ever women’s MMA tournament took place in Japan. And then in ’97 the first recorded women’s MMA competition in the United States took place. And then as the sport continued to grow, in the early 2000s women’s MMA started to come into the scene a little bit more. So in 2006 a major MMA promotion called Strikeforce promoted its first women’s MMA bout. And then in 2009 that same MMA promotion Strikeforce had its first main event … had its first women’s fight as a main event.

Brenda: What do you think is responsible for like 2011, that’s fascinating what you’re saying. So just in that short period of time, do you think anything in particular happened?

Ally: So, Dana White has a history of saying things will never happen in the UFC, and then shortly after they’d happen. So it seems to be a common occurrence in the UFC, if not like a promotional strategy. And then top of that, also in March 2011 the UFC’s parent company Zuffa bought Strikeforce, which already had women fighters. And then later in 2011 Ronda Rousey came into the scene, and really started to promote herself in sexualized ways, which I would argue is how the UFC was hoping to promote women’s MMA.

Brenda: So today, do you think … I mean are many of these women coming from the ranks of I know some of them have experience in judo. Where are they kind of coming from right now? Where’s there training?

Ally: I think that’s one of the things that I love about MMA. Your training doesn’t have to be in one particular area. It can come from anywhere, and then your unique skills from where you started, whether it’s in judo, whether it’s in Brazilian jiu-jitsu, kickboxing, karate, any of those; your uniqueness due to your prior training is where the beauty comes out in this sport I would say.

Brenda: Who do you think we should be, I mean for those of us who are just totally ignorant of the basics of this. Who and what should we be looking at right now? Who should we be paying attention to?

Ally: Obviously Amanda Nunes. That’s very clear after her recent bout with Cyborg. And I would also say-

Brenda: Could you explain, sorry. Not to interrupt you but could you explain a little bit about her in that recent fight?

Ally: Yeah, so Amanda Nunes at the end of December became the first woman to ever hold two championship belts in the UFC. She also beat someone who not completely across the board but largely across the board were like everybody was saying that Cyborg was going to win, she is incredible fighter, they’re both Brazilian, both from Brazil. And everyone was really just assuming it was just going to be another one of Cyborg’s belts or sorry another one of Cyborg’s fights where they promoted it as being one of her toughest battles of all time, and she ends up winning pretty effortlessly right?

It didn’t end up working that way, in the most recent fight because Amanda Nunes ended up winning the fight within 51 seconds. So it was pretty incredible.

Brenda: Wow.

Ally: Yeah. And I actually-

Brenda: What’s the average time? What’s like an average time of a fight. I’ve seen like two. So bear with me. What would be like a normal time that you would’ve expected.

Ally: I mean, I don’t know off the top of my head. But the average UFC or MMA fight would be, but it’s different depending on what the matchup is really. I mean I expected it to be … so I would probably be the worse sports better of all time because I always just go with my heart when I’m like trying to predict who’s gonna win. I always go for someone based on who they are as a person, what kind of charity work they do, what kind of activism they do. So like I said I would be the worst sports better ever.

But I was really going with my heart, I was going with Amanda. But my head was saying Cyborg because she’s such a massive fighter. So skilled. And Nunes was, she is and was at the time the 135, the Bantamweight champion. And she was moving up a weight class to fight Cyborg for the 145 belt as well. So people largely thought that Cyborg was gonna win that fight. And Amanda Nunes went in, was a shock to most I would say, including myself. But me and my sister like air hugged across the bar when that happened.

Brenda: Why do you like Amanda so much?

Ally: I just love what she, who she is as a person, what she stands for. She was part of the first ever fight with two LGBTQ women fighting each other. I think that her current partner has some success right now in the UFC as well. Some pretty recent success, and I just really like that it’s a new type of fighter that the UFC is really being forced to promote now.

Brenda: And what is her background? What sort of expertise does she come at this with?

Ally: Nunes?

Brenda: Yes.

Ally: So, she’s Brazilian. She’s extremely well rounded, everyone was saying at first largely Brazilian jiu-jitsu was where her strengths were. But she’s shown like various KOs and TKOs in first rounds in the last probably five or six fights that she’s had, she shows that she’s a well-rounded fighter. She’s not just a grappler, she’s also a stand up fighter which is really what MMA is, being well rounded fighters.

Brenda: And who else should we keep our eye on?

Ally: I mentioned a little bit earlier, Rose Namajunas. Rose is pretty young, and she kind of … so she’s been in the strawweight division which is 115 since the beginning. So that was 2013 is when women’s strawweight division first came into the UFC. But she kind of came out of nowhere with her success when she beat Polish fighter, and who was a champion at the time Joanna; it was a similar situation. Everyone thought that she had no chance of winning, and she ended up winning that fight incredibly and then also won the second fight against Joanna. She really proved herself, and really promoted in the same way as other fighters in her division until she won the strawweight belt in 2017.

Brenda: Women from around the world are participating in this, it’s a really global sport. I mean as you said, two of the fights between two Brazilians, then we have Polish fighter; do they face similar challenges in this sport? Or are there differences given that they’re coming from different countries in context?

Ally: Do you mean in general? Or like during fight week or?

Brenda: In general.

Ally: I think there’s different advantages and disadvantages in every context obviously. If you’re coming in on fight week and you have a fight in Vegas and you’re coming in from Brazil that’s obviously a disadvantage that you’re going in that with in terms of time change, even differences in weather. But in other countries, so I come from Canada where I’ve done some form of martial arts for most of my life. And it’s not a matter of living in a big city, that’s where you’re gonna succeed. There’s fighters from my hometown of 150,000 people who are in the UFC.

So, it’s not a matter of really where you come from or anything. It’s a matter of like who’s behind you and what the team is behind you I would say. And how you can prove yourself through that really.

Brenda: And then once they’re in the UFC, I mean you mentioned this actualization of players and Rousey’s involvement in some of those really ambivalent sort of circumstances. What do you think today are some of the challenges facing women in the UFC fighting?

Ally: I think that, there are some challenges with some women, more so with others. And that specifically has to do with the very clear sexualized marketing that’s going on in UFC and just sport in general really. Obviously the UFC wants to promote women who they think their audience wants to watch. And recently Amanda Nunes last year she even came out saying she doesn’t fit the profile of what a UFC champion would be. But now that she’s proven herself, along with I would say that Cyborg it’s the same thing with Cyborg.

Women are having to prove themselves extra to be able to be promoted if they’re not fitting the character, the archetype of a UFC fighter. A woman who’s a fighter that the UFC wants to promote. So they have to force the UFC to believe in them, to support them as Nunes did. They didn’t have a chance, or didn’t have a choice they had to promote her because she’s incredible. She proved herself as a great fighter. And I think that’s really the difference between what she did and what someone like Rousey had done.

Brenda: So, when you say they don’t fit the archetype of a UFC fighter, you mean they’re not explicitly hetero and feminine? Or what would that archetype look like?

Ally: That’s exactly it, when Nunes was talking about this topic she even said like they want she said, “blondies” they want cute little girls who fight and take pictures and post it on social media. And that’s not something that she was willing to do, so then she had to take a different route. She had to prove herself first.

Brenda: It sounds like there’s some racialized ideas of femininity too.

Ally: Absolutely, yeah. I would definitely say so.

Brenda: How would you say so? Is it just that what’s considered to be pretty or marketable? Is it always the white woman?

Ally: I mean, I would say so yeah. Or the white woman, or the woman who’s willing the post pictures on social media, certain types of pictures on social media. So we have someone like Paige Vanzant, who until recently was 115 pound fighter. She is blonde hair, blue eyes, very small, likes to take pictures of herself in bikinis. She makes lot of posts on social media about her religious views. So she’s kind of like the perfect fighter for the UFC, that the UFC wants to promote.

In turn she’s also had incredible fight opportunities that didn’t really … I would argue don’t match up with her skill. And there’s evidence to show that the UFC tries to pad her record as much as they can. So for example on January 19th, Paige Vanzant despite coming off of two losses, despite coming off of a year out of fighting because of surgery. She was paired up with Ostovich and she ended up beating Ostovich by submission by arm bar. And this would be an exciting occurrence in any other situation but it kind of rubs me the wrong way a little bit because of the context.

Paige Vanzant before January 19th had seven UFC fights, and then her opponent Ostovich; January 19th was her UFC debut. So there were major differences between the skill level and the experience level that both those fighters had and it seems a little bit suspect to me right? So it seems as though they are marketing this fighter differently than they’re marketing other fighters because of what Dana White would call the “it factor”. Or what I would call her, how she markets herself and how she sexualizes herself.

Brenda: Okay. And so who is their audience?

Ally: I don’t know. I don’t have an exact figures for this or anything, but they’re audience from what I’ve just seen anecdotally I know that they’re audience is not just straight white men right? Between 18 and 34 years old, right? So many women watch the UFC, so many women from so many different countries. Women who are a part of the LGBTQ community, women who are not. There is a very diverse audience here, and I don’t think that the UFC is tapping into all those audiences and I’m not sure if that’s unintentional.

Brenda: So, what does it mean to you as someone who’s spend a lot of your life in MMA to see this sport look like it’s about to explode?

Ally: I think it’s good and bad. It’s amazing and there could be some negative implications of it as well. I mean, I haven’t looked up in this for a few months so it could be different now. But last time I checked MMA was, there was talks about MMA becoming an Olympic sport. So the sport is huge and it’s not going to stop growing I don’t think.

Brenda: Okay, well thank you so much for helping us wade through some of our like very first you know moments with this. We’re late to the game obviously, but Ally Quinney we thank you very much on Burn It All Down.

Ally: Thank you for having me.

Shireen: Jessica, would you like to talk to us about Joy?

Jessica: Yeah. That would make me happy. So Lindsay made a joke last week, Lindsay made a joke earlier this episode about how Burn It All Down can turn even a light subject into a heavy one. But I think this week, I think we can do it. I believe in us.

Brenda: Uh-oh!

Jessica: We can do it Brenda! We can do this. All right, so this week the world fell in love with UCLA gymnast Katelyn Ohasi’s recent floor routine at a collegiate competition. I’m not gonna try to describe all of the moves she does. Because honestly, you should pause this right now and go watch it. You will feel better after you watch this. She is radiating pure joy the whole time. She is having fun, the music is great, and her teammates! Ahhhh, her teammates are dancing with her on the sideline, the entire team in sync having the time of their lives. I can tell you on the video that I watched that was at the 39 second mark. So if you need to just fast forward right to it.

And the gymnastics itself, well I’ll just tell you that Ohashi got a 10.0 on that routine. So literally everything about it is perfect, it is wonderful. So we thought it’d be fun this week to think about fun moments in sports, ones that have sparked joy in us. I think one thing about this is sports is most of the time fun right? In general the reason that I and I assume all of us spend so much time thinking about this and writing about it and podcasting about it is because we just love watching sports. Like that alone gives us joy. Right before we started recording, I was watching Sloane Stephens play in the Australian Open, what a cool fun thing to wake up to in the morning. Do I want Sloane to win? And apparently it’s very tight, and I don’t know if she’s gonna pull this out.

But one thing about Ohashi’s performance that helps elevate how good you feel when you’re watching it, I think is that it’s isolated. Like you don’t see her competitors. You only see her, you see her work, you see her joy. And when I was thinking about that aspect of it, it reminded me of Mirai Nagasu the US figure skater when she hit her triple axel at the Olympics last year. And I know when I rationally think about it, I understand that she was competing and that there were competitors and all that stuff. But that moment, it was just her on the ice against herself, seeing if she could do something almost no other woman has done, and then she fucking did it. And then she skate beautifully for the rest of the program and then I know we’ve talked about this repeatedly on Burn It All Down but that smile. That broke on her face when she finished. Just even now thinking about it I’m so happy.

I said all that because the sports moment that I wanna talk about did have a loser, and I think that’s one of the hard things about sport when I think about it. But as a spectator I remember how exciting and how amazing the entire thing was. For me, one of these moments of joy in sport it was the semifinals of Wimbledon in 2009. This will surprise no one that knows anything about me. Serena Williams played Elena Dementieva. The match went on…

Lindsay: This was heartbreaking!

Jessica: No, it was won … as a fan it was amazing. The match went on-

Lindsay: It was Dementieva, she needed this moment for her career so much more than Serena! Oh, I’m sorry. You’re breaking my heart! It’s Elena Dementieva! I love her so much, okay. Keep going, sorry.

Jessica: So, the match went on for almost three hours. It was two hours, 49 minutes it’s probably still the longest women’s semi-final in the open era. Serena saved a match point in the 10th game of the third set. And here’s how Christopher Cleary wrote about that particular point for the New York Times a decade ago, “Down by 4-5, 30-40 on her serve in the third set of this Wimbledon semi-final on Thursday. She pushed forward to the net, Dementieva sprinted to her left and hit a back hand passing shot across court that Williams cut off with a back hand volley that clipped the net and landed for a winner.”

The entire match, almost three hours was incredible. High level tennis, it was full of drama. It’s the kind of match where you’re like holding your breath almost the entire time. Where you seriously don’t know who’s gonna win until the final point is played. Like my heart pumps just thinking about it now. And I feel so lucky that I got to watch that live as it was happening, that we as fans get to see moments like that and remember them, and feel it. I mean I feel weird saying this now, but it was a pure joy sports moment for me when I think back on it. What about you guys?

Shireen: Linds?

Lindsay: Yeah sorry I didn’t mean to hijack your segment, but I think it just does show how different moments mean different things … you know joy’s not a uniform thing. And of course I love Serena, when I think of Dementieva I think of that match. I think of how much I just feel like I wanted it for her because she was just such a great player and such a great person. And that just really does show you like there’s always two sides to every story. But I know what you mean about watching these matches and watching these players compete, and just feeling so blessed that you have the opportunity to do that.

I think you know for me, it is always those … it’s the moments that I think of the happy you know winning and probable winning moments I think are the ones that spark the most joy in me. I mean one of the sports moments that I’ve re watched the most over the past decade is the men’s relay in the 2008 Beijing Olympics in swimming where Jason Lezak in that final leg had that amazing comeback to keep Michael Phelps’ gold medal streak alive. And of course, if you’re a fan of the French team; like that is a heart breaking moment.

But as an American, I remember watching that live and it was just … you know when he took the water it just seemed like there was no way that he was gonna be able to make this comeback. And then he did, and to see just the joy of the teammates and of Michael Phelps who’s just like unbridled joy and just the celebration, and it just like culminating in moments like that. That we’re like the improbable meets the insane amount of hard work that these players have put in, these athletes have put in to making these moments possible. It’s just always so much fun to go back and kind of relive those moments in time. Just like I’ll go back and relive Katelyn’s routine over and over again. Because it’s just, it doesn’t make sense that all these things should be able to happen at once on a court.

Another moment for me that just sparks pure, unadulterated joy is after Marion Bartoli won her really improbable Wimbledon title. And she just goes sprinting to her box. She dropped her racket, and she just like all out sprints to the corner for her box. And just like that sprint was joy, like that just like it should be in the dictionary next to joy. So those are some moments that I really do think of. But of course, if you’re a big fan of; I believe it was Sabine Lisicki who Bartoli met you know watching that final, that’s not a moment of joy for you. That’s a moment of devastation.

Maybe that is what makes something like you know gymnastics and figure skating where the athletes do get these moments where it’s just them. Or yeah, they’re in a competition but they get these standalone moments on the stage, where their competitors aren’t visible. That make it so much easier to kind of associate those moments with pure joy because you’re not seeing the heartbreak at the other end. It’s not one on one battle.

Shireen: Thanks so much for that, mine is a bit something I’ve sort of carried with me for a really long time in terms of joy, in terms of joy while in the midst of competition. I’ve always been a huge fan of figure skating. And one of my favorite couples of all time were of Ekaterina Gordiva, Katya Gordiva and Sergei Grinkov in their ice dance. And for those of you that are old enough to know, remember, Sergei Grinkov and Ekaterina Gordiva had skated together since they were very young. This Russian couple was beautiful. They ended up actually getting together and getting married and having a baby.

And then oh my god, it was really tragic in 1995 Sergei Grinkov actually died on the ice of a heart attack. He was very young, very healthy, but it was one of those completely random things. And she was on the ice with him. It was just an absolutely heartbreaking story. But when they used to skate together, there was this flow. He was much taller, she was very petite and he was very tall. He used to just lift her up and he would bring her down on the ice and sort of move his lips would graze her lips. It was just done so magically, and so beautifully that there was joy and love all sort of surrounding them. Like this halo enveloping the two of them on the ice.

It was riveting to watch, it was so beautiful. You sort of had this hope for whatever. I mean you know for possibility for sport, for the grace that they had, for the love that they were sharing with the world. I remember actually crying when I found out that he had died. And I was sort of trying to figure out why I was so upset. I was like why am I crying about this Russian athlete I don’t know anything about? But I did, because I watched them for so long. And I had sort of been apart. I felt that I was a part of their journey. So that’s something I still carry with me, in terms of absolute joy. It’s a very specific and I know we all will be wait a minute Shireen, how come you’re not taking like soccer or hockey?

But for me, this was one thing in my mind that exuded joy and fun, and happiness, and I wanted to share that. Brenda?

Brenda: It’s very bold of you Shireen to put me last on this segment.

Shireen: Half glass full Brenda, half glass full.

Brenda: I have a million of these moments, I really do. But this week it’s interesting because it’s a very old sports match up that I just watched for the first time. I knew what was gonna happen, it’s Rumble in the Jungle, 1974. Ali versus Foreman. And I’ve read about the fight for years, but I’ve never had the stomach to watch it. And I’m researching an article on Black boxers in Argentina so I’m thinking about boxing for the first time, and I’ve had to familiarize myself by watching quite a lot of boxing. Which I just don’t have the stomach for.

And so, 1974, Ali had lost the belt seven years before for his refusal to fight in Vietnam. Foreman at 25 just looked so the better competitor. In great shape, an overwhelming favorite. Ali’s I think 32? It’s fought in Zaire and basically he has the rope a dope strategy? I’m not sure if you’ve probably all heard of this but me. And so basically he’s just draining Foreman by covering himself for the first two rounds. Like he just … he leans back on the ropes and just lets him hit him. And you’re just watching it, and I’m just screaming and I know he’s gonna win. I know he’s gonna win. But I’m still like on the edge of my seat and I’m like stop. Like hit him! I’m screaming, this is long before Foreman had grills and shit. Like he’s like really scary in this fight.

And you’re just watching it. And you’re just on a edge of your seat. And it’s amazing, and he just drains Foreman. Like you can tell, fourth round. He’s got no more energy. And Foreman said later that right before Ali knocks him out, he whispers in his ear, “Is that all you got George?”

Shireen: Oh.

Brenda: And George Foreman said, “I knew then, that he had duped me.” Like this was, he’s a brilliant fighter, and Ali just like, he just takes this breathe and you see a five punch series at Foreman. And I can’t believe how happy I am as I’m watching it. I’m like I hate boxing, I hate punching people right? And here I am watching this, I’m like yes! Go Ali! Like you vindicate yourself and war resisting and you’re awesome right?

Anyway, now I’d just like to mention our Kentucky airports gonna be named for him. So haha in your face Mitch McConnell. And it’s a ton of joy, if you have a chance to watch that fight again, if you haven’t I’m probably the last person in the world. It was amazing.

Shireen: That’s awesome. I just wanted to add that I’m really happy for the segment that we see joy. And one person’s joy can be another person’s sadness and that’s what sport is. But we can all agree in one thing. And don’t usually ever speak for anyone else. I only speak for myself. But I can say this team, the Burn It All Down Team gets a lot of joy out of Serena Williams outfits constantly. So I feel that I’m safe to say that. That you know although there could be feelings about winning and playing and losing, just her clothes bring us a lot of joy. Her loveliness, her amazingness bring here a lot of joy.

So, onto our favorite part of the show, the burn pile. Jessica, can you go first?

Jessica: Yeah. Of course. So on Saturday night, last night; we record on Sundays. So on Saturday night former NFL-er Greg Hardy. That’s it, no I’m just kidding; was on the card for UFC 143. Hardy you might remember was initially found guilty of domestic violence a few years ago. But when it came time to go through the appeal processes, the woman that he abused didn’t wanna participate any longer as happens with so many domestic violence victims. So the state dropped the case. But to be totally clear here, she says that Hardy strangled her, threatened to kill her, dragged her by her hair, and threw her down on a couch covered in guns.

Hardy was then signed by the Dallas Cowboys who said repeatedly that they care about domestic violence victims. Hardy wasn’t a great team mate though, surprise. And he got into fights with coaches and players on the team, eventually getting cut. He’s not doing mixed martial arts in the UFC. But here’s the thing about UFC 143. Also on the card on Saturday was Rachael Ostovich who had temporarily pulled out of her fight because in November her husband, also an MMA fighter beat her up and put her in the hospital. He broke her orbital bone, and was initially charged with attempted murder. Which has since been reduced to second degree assault.

But Ostovich decided she wanted to fight, and said repeatedly in the lead up to it that she was doing it for other victims so they could see her be strong in the face of the abuse that she suffered. So here we are. Hardy and Ostovich were on the same ticket. Dana White, the president of UFC and really just a very rich fight promoter and all around asshole chose to put them together. And on the very first fight to ever air on ESPN. It was probably a really good marketing idea, which is super fucking disgusting. Which is White said, and I’m gonna quote from the Washington Post here. “This guy paid his dues (referring to Hardy) he lost everything. He’s been building himself up for the last five years. He’s done everything a human being is supposed to do.”  When questioning the optics of having Hardy fight on the same card as Ostovich; White replied, “Well then tune in and watch him get knocked out if that’s the way you feel about it. The guy deserves to make a living.”

There’s so much to say about that. But mainly it’s just garbage. So Ostovich lost on Saturday in the second round. Submitting to an arm bar after a very good first round. Hardy, well here’s how Yahoo describes the end of Hardy’s fight. “He was disqualified for illegally kneeing his opponent in the head, while his opponent was on the ground. It was an obvious blatant foul that made the crowd gasp and the referee immediately stop the fight.” This is exactly what White was hoping for, I’m sure when he signed Hardy on. I have nothing original to say about any of this, we just care so little about domestic violence victims and so much about the money. This is a very blatant example of all of that once again around Greg Hardy.

Burn it all.

Group: Burn.

Shireen: Linds?

Lindsay: So here in the United States, we are in the middle of an extensively long government shut down. And our horrendous leader decided that he would invite the Clemson Tigers Football Team to the White House. Near days after they won the national championship. Usually these visits don’t happen till weeks typically months later. So first of all that kind of reeks of PR. Why do we have to do the invitation so quickly and in the middle of a shut down?

Well I’ll tell you why, it’s because Trump wanted to make a big show out of this. What he did, is he went because the kitchen staff, a lot of those people are furloughed. It’s hard to really plan a big event when the government is shut down. So he decided to make a big show, about going to fast food places and ordering hundreds of hamburgers and soggy salads and cold french fries and serving these on you know the Lincoln Gravy bowls and you know lighting candles around it.

And look, there’s a lot more serious things that I could be throwing on the burn pile right now, I understand. But this was just such a blatant use of these athletes to try and gain PR points. But because he doesn’t know how to gain PR points, he went about it in the worst way possible. And it was just like these pictures, they just make me feel like we’re in dystopia. It’s like Trump standing there, looking the way he does, next to people lighting candles on the Lincoln gravy boats filled with dipping sauce from Burger King. Like it’s just the most ridiculous images I’ve ever seen.

And once again, these athletes do not get paid. And now they are dragged to the White House for photo ops next to hamburgers. And it’s just, I just wanna throw Trump, this government shutdown, and amateurism all onto the burn pile. Burn.

Shireen: Burn. Mrs. Brenda? Can you go please?

Brenda: Oh, I’m sorry, I thought I was after you. Sure. This week, I would like … it’s good and bad. This is actually a mixed burn. It’s weird. Because it uncovers something really cool that happened. But there’s a whole lot of it I wanna burn. Last week it was reported that MLS team Minnesota United FC were interested in goal keeper Agustin Rossi. Rossi has been with Boca Juniors and he’s really, I mean he’s got like 45 games in 25 clean sheets which Shireen will appreciate as quite a record for a youngster. He’s 23 years old. And another thing he has is a very troubling record of domestic violence.

And it’s been pretty well documented by his partner at the time. So this all came out in 2016. And I’d just like to say that the reaction of Minnesota United fans, the Loons, was amazing. They came out right away and obrigadato friend of the show Eric Silva who tipped us off about what was going on. They put out a press release asking the club not to contract Rossi. Saying you know, we just really don’t want this to happen unless we have more information, and this has some sort of … it has been addressed. And I just really hats off to the Loons right? For this reaction.

But what I wanna burn is the reaction of other fans who thought that somehow they were being unreasonable. That somehow asking Minnesota United FC to look into quite troubling evidence of a domestic violence past was just too much. That innocent until proven guilty was thrown around. Argentine media got a hold of this story and said this is a denuncia, like this is an old accusation. So it’s old you know? It happened in 2016, like a century ago? That same time period that you’re looking at his record to decide that he’s a good player? Like that same time frame that matters in his playing but doesn’t matter in his character?

So, I wanna burn the reaction of people who went after these fans for just a very human reaction to the possible contracting of Agustin Rossi. I wanna burn it.

Group: Burn.

Shireen: Just a little bit of a trigger warning too for this burn. I wanted to actually touch upon the reports coming out of South Korea. And in particular I’m gonna be citing Park Chung Kyong’s piece which we’ll link in Show Nuts about the allegations and the rape culture, and the culture of fear and violence that is very, very dominant in South Korea’s sort of Olympic team particularly with regards to their speed skating. And we know that South Korea’s actually very successful in speed skating.

What ended up happening was there was a young athlete who came forward and she is 21-year-old double Olympic Gold medalist Shim Suk-hee and she’s publicly accused her former coach of sexual abuse starting when she was actually 17. Now Cho Jae-beom who is the coach, he had been found guilty of physically assaulting her. And it’s come forward that six other athletes are coming forward. And we see when they look into history and they sort of probe what happens, they’re actually athletes who quit in the middle of training camp because they had been physically abused. We’re talking about mental abuse, verbal abuse, physical. Like literally kicking and punching the athletes to get them to perform better. Like it created such a culture of fear in those athletes that was just unimaginable. I can’t imagine being … training to be in the toughest stage in the world in your sport and then enduring abuse from your coach. It’s just horrible.

As usual Burn It All Down is in solidarity with these survivors and really hope that they get all the support that they need but in addition to that, this system of misogyny and toxic masculinity that creates these horrible vacuum spaces that hurt athletes who are literally just doing what they love, they’re using their bodies, they’re testing themselves to the limits. Pushing themselves beyond physically possible in some cases and they’re having to endure this. I can’t even imagine. I wanna burn that, I wanna burn that misogyny and violence and much love to the athletes.


Jessica: Burn.

Shireen: Now, one of my favorite parts of the show is to exemplify and highlight incredible folks in sport. So honorable mention for baddest woman of the week.

First of all, all the athletes at Ski Cross World Cup in Idre Fjall, Sweden.

The British ultra-runner Jasmin Paris is celebrating after becoming the first woman to win this grueling race along the Pennine Way. What made the performance more extraordinary was that she shattered the course record by 12 hours, while also expressing breast milk for her baby at eight stations along the route. And she works at the University of Edinburgh researching Leukemia. I know right?

I wanna shout out Leslie Gallimore, the legendary Husky soccer coach at the University of Washington who just announced that the 2019 will be her last season coaching the soccer team. Gallimore is currently the longest tenured soccer coach in the conference having won over 250 games in her career.

Want to shout out Khadjou Sambe, the first Senegalese woman who will be going to the Olympics hopefully for surfing. She’s based in Northern California but says 6,000 miles away from Dakar but says when she gets into the water she’s home.

Wanna also reiterate and shout out Imke Wübbenhorst, the coach of the fifth-division Bundesliga squad BV Cloppenburg and she’s a former player of the club on Cloppenburg’s woman’s side, and as Lindsay mentioned she’s one of the first women to coach a high-level men’s team in Germany. But she’s badass for actually as Lindsay mentioned saying very beautifully in a retort when someone asked her if the players would wear a siren on their heads so they could notify the team when she entered to locker room. “Of course not, I am a pro. I pick my team based on penis size.”

Downhill skiing sensation Mikaela Shiffrin was named Team USA’s best female athlete for December, she’s also the first athlete to win 15 races in one calendar year. The most for any skier, male or female ever.

Misty Copeland is set to break another barrier at the American Ballet Theater when she and Calvin Royal III will make their debut as Pierrette and Pierrot in “Harlequinade” at Segerstrom Hall on Friday. They’re taking the ballet’s secondary leads to the main character and it will mark the first time in the company’s history that an African American man and woman will dance a lead couple’s roles.

Shout out to superstar Alex Morgan of Orlando Pride and US Women’s National Soccer Team. She was named the CONCACAF Female Player of the Year.

Can I get a drum roll please?

So actually, what I wanted to say was can I get a what, what? But never mind. You can, instead of drum roll; I’ve always wanted to say that. And it’s my birthday week, so can I get a what what? [crosstalk 01:04:43]. Okay.

Jessica: Sorry Shireen.

Shireen: It’s okay.

Brenda: We’re failing you.

Shireen: No, you guys never fail me.

Our badass woman of the week are Haley Carter and Kelly Lindsey for receiving the United Soccer Coaches Presidential recognition award from actually another honorable mention Leslie Gallimore for their work with the Afghan Women’s National Team. We are so proud to have had them on the show for a recent hot take and Episode 43 respectively. Congratulations ladies.

What’s good? Please ,what’s good? Let’s start with Brenda, who’s always a bubbling symbol of positivity.

Brenda: What’s good? Shireen’s birthday is good.

Shireen: Woo!

Brenda: I’m really happy Shireen was born, and you all should be too. And I’m happy she’s happy because there’s nothing better than seeing a woman fully realized and able to celebrate herself and not sort of hide in the corner during her birthday like me.

Lindsay: Same Brenda, same.

Brenda: So, I love Shireen’s birthday week, it’s awesome. We got a bunch of snow in New York and it actually looks beautiful and it wasn’t too much, and it wasn’t too little. So that’s really good. And I know it’s a broken record but what am I supposed to do? It’s being a little messy right now in La Liga is on fire. And it is beautiful to watch an average of a goal a game. He scored 400 in what 365 appearances or something? And it’s insane. And so I love when things defy reason like that.

Shireen: Jessica.

Jessica: Yeah, so obviously the Australian Open. By the time y’all hear this, you’ll know the outcome. But Serena Williams is gonna play Simona Halep, I assume in the middle of the night tonight? I’m considering getting up to watch it. I don’t want to miss it. I’m very excited about it, it’s been a very fun tournament overall.

I wanted to mention podcast that I’m absolutely in love with, it’s called “Who? Weekly” Like there’s a question mark after who. It’s ridiculous, don’t go listen to it thinking you’re getting anything substantial out of it. It’s about B and C celebrities, and their tagline is it’s everything you need to know about celebrities you don’t. And it really is, Bobby Finger and Lindsay Webber are hilarious. I enjoy it deeply.

And then I wanted to mention Sex Education is a show on Netflix. We just finished watching the first season eight episodes, it’s lovely. It will bring you joy. It will spark joy in you. So I highly recommend Sex Education that was very good to me this week.

Shireen: Thanks so much Brenda, you kind of took my what’s good, but I’m still excited. It’s my birthday. I love my birthday so much, y’all know this. It’s on Tuesday, probably the day that this is getting released because we record Sunday morning. I’m most really, really, really excited for today; I’m going to go see the CWHL all-star hockey game in Toronto. I’m gonna be joined by Dr. Courtney Szto who’s been on our show, my friend Amina Mohamed, and Erica Ayala. So that is gonna be awesome. Erica’s also been on our show. She’s the you know woman’s basketball and hockey expert.

It’ll be really, really nice to meet her in person. And we’re gonna have this little women of color crowd at hockey, so that’ll just be really, really fun as well. So, I’ve been really looking forward to this game for a while. And I’m going to, I’ve got big plans for my birthday. I’m gonna get my car cleaned and washed, and that’s very exciting for me. Yeah, it’s really exciting. So that’s about it. Linds?

Lindsay: Yeah, I am the tennis is always what’s good. Speaking of that, I wanna do a little self-promo for another what’s good.

Starting this week, I’m gonna be joining the team for the Nine Newsletter, which is a newsletter that comes into your inbox, up to this point it’s been Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Women’s basketball, one day, women’s soccer one day, women’s hockey the other day. And they’re adding a day for tennis and a day for golf. So I’m gonna be their women’s tennis writer. So please everyone go and subscribe to the Nine. Erica Ayala, friend of the show is another one of the writers who does the women’s hockey round up. So I’m really excited, I got my start in all of this as a tennis writer, and had really been disconnected from it for the past couple of years. So I’m really excited to have kind of an excuse to dive in on a weekly basis and also be part of this project that is trying to help build another infrastructure for women media of women’s sports. So yeah, I’m really excited about that.

Shireen: That’s it for this week in Burn It All Down. Although we are done for now, you can always burn all day and night with our fabulous array of merchandise at our Tee Spring store. Including mugs, pillow, tee shirts, hoodies, bags. What a better way to crush toxic patriarchy in sports and sports media by getting a pillow with our logo on it. Burn It All Down lives on Sound Cloud but can be found on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, and Tune In.

We appreciate your reviews and feedback, so please subscribe and rate us to let us know what we did well and what we can improve. You can find us on Facebook at Burn It All Down, on Twitter at Burn It All Down Pod, or on Instagram at Burn It All Down Pod. Or you can email us at Burn It All Down Pod at Gmail dot com. You can check out our website: www dot Burn It All Down Pod dot com. Where you will find previous episodes, transcripts, and a link to our Patreon. We would appreciate you subscribing, sharing, rating our show which helps us to do the work we love to do and keep burning what needs to be burned.

On behalf of Jessica, Lindsay, Brenda, I’m Shireen. Thank you so much for being here.

Shelby Weldon