Episode 245: Madness Redux on Basketball, Hockey and Tennis
In this episode, Lindsay Gibbs, Shireen Ahmed and Jessica Luther revisit the recent madness of women's basketball, hockey and tennis. But first, they discuss the event with the green jackets (golf). Then, Lindsay gives a behind the scenes look at her time attending the Women's March Madness tournament, Shireen shares about the latest in women's hockey, including the PHF Isobel Cup, and Jessica talks about Iga Swaitek's recent dominance in the tennis world and other noteworthy drama.
Following this discussion, you'll hear about Lindsay's interview with reporter Jackie Powell on the WNBA Draft. Next, they burn the worst of sports this week on the Burn Pile. Then, they celebrate those making sports better including Torchbearer of the Week, Ari Chambers, who was named the Dawn Staley 2022 Excellence in Broadcasting Honoree. They wrap up the show with What's Good in their in their lives and What We're Watching in sports this week.
This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our social media and website specialist. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network.
Transcript
Lindsay: Hi, flamethrowers. Lindsay Gibbs here. Welcome to Burn It All Down, the feminist sports podcast you need. So excited today to be joined on the show by Jessica Luther and Shireen Ahmed. Hi, friends.
Jessica: Hello, Linz.
Lindsay: So, later in the show, we're going to be doing what I call a March Madness redux. I know it's April, but we're going to kind of be going over some big stories that happened in March and early April, from basketball to hockey to tennis, that are important but that were easy to miss because, well, the madness. But first, I guess the biggest sports story over the weekend was the Masters. Did either of you watch the Masters? I know we're not really a golf podcast. [laughs]
Jessica: That would be a no for me. That'd be a no.
Lindsay: Cool. This was a great opening topic then.
Jessica: It was a whole thing here because apparently the man who won, who – I would have to look his name up.
Lindsay: Scottie Scheffler, Scottie Scheffler!
Jessica: From Dallas. From like ritzy Dallas, Highland Park, where Clayton Kershaw and Matt Stafford are from. He went to UT, lots of Hook ‘Em things in my timeline. So I definitely saw that that man won the Masters. You're welcome.
Shireen: I don't know anything about the masters except for they were green blazers. I did not watch it. Is this even where they wear blazers?
Jessica: Yeah, you got it.
Shireen: Okay. So, yeah, I did not watch it, but I'm sure it was fun.
Jessica: Tiger is interesting. He was the most interesting thing, I think, for the casual of us.
Shireen: I feel like in the men's golf, it's all like the Commonwealth obsessed, because I'm looking at the scores and it's like Australia and Ireland and…Other than the USA, obviously. But this person McIlroy, I don't even…Is that Wales? I don't even know what that flag is.
Lindsay: Do you not know who Rory McIlroy is? That's my new favorite thing about Shireen. [laughs]
Jessica: I know. I know that's amazing.
Shireen: I have no idea who this man is.
Jessica: That is amazing.
Shireen: Oh, he’s from Northern Ireland. Oh my god. Wow. Okay. I did not know that. So, I learned something today.
Jessica: He's the guy that treated Caroline Wozniacki poorly, is how I think of him. [laughs]
Lindsay: Yeah, but now we kind of like him because he's kind of grown up into an interesting human being. But he did break off his engagement with Wozniacki the day after they sent out their wedding invites. So that was a whole thing.
Jessica: I hold grudges, so that is my… [laughs] So, that is how we do golf on this show!
Lindsay: So, I actually watched the end of it. Rory had a really good round and he wasn't really in contention, but then he shot like seven under on the day and got to second place. But on the 18th hole, he hit like a chip in for birdie from the sand trap, which like is really hard to do. And then the roar was just crazy. And then right afterwards, his playing partner did the exact same thing. So they had like back to back chip ins for birdies to end their round. And it was a really cool moment. That was really fun to watch. And then even though I didn't know, I was like, who’s Scottie Scheffler? And I was like, oh, he's the world number one. [Jessica laughs] But apparently he's come on the scene very recently. So it's not bad that I didn't know that.
Shireen: So, Burn It All Down is not behind on the golf. We got the blazers.
Lindsay: We’re only really like a few weeks behind. [laughter] We’re really not that behind at all. But anyways, it would be nice if they would let the women have a major at Augusta, but you know, it's only 2022. We can't ask for too much. [laughter] As most of you know, I've spent the last month laser focused on the women's March Madness basketball tournament. I was very lucky, I got to go from the first four in Raleigh all the way to the championship in Minnesota. I was at every round, and it's been incredible, but I've also missed a lot of other stuff [laughs] while I've been at the tournament. So, the point of this segment, which we call recapping the madness, is going to be to talk a little bit about my experience at the women's NCAA basketball tournament, especially the Final Four. But also, Shireen and Jess are gonna take us down some lanes of hockey and tennis that were also having their own versions of March Madness.
So, I just want to say that I did get COVID at the Final Four, as well as…It was like a superspreader event. And it is hard to completely separate that from my experience right now, as I'm sitting here with very, very bad brain fog. But it was a bucket list item to be able to kind of be at so much of the women's basketball. I was at the Greensboro regional, so the Sweet 16 and Elite Eight in Greensboro where Dawn Staley and the South Carolina Gamecocks were the top seed. So I got to spend kind of two weekends in press watching Dawn Staley lead the way. And I think that's what I'm going to take away the most from this. Obviously South Carolina won the championship, beating UConn in the Final Four. UConn beat Stanford and South Carolina beat Louisville.
But I gotta say, like, Dawn Staley's intentionality is something to watch. She pays attention to every piece around her and gives it care. If we're doing metaphors, she waters that ground, that flower bed, every single inch of it. That's how she built up such a huge community of fans in South Carolina basically from scratch. They didn't have a big basketball tradition before she got there, and her games were selling out before they won their first national championship in 2017 because she invested so much in the community. And to watch the local media and the band and the fans, the way they rally around the team and the way Dawn Staley calls them out and appreciates them, it's really special. I think it just goes to show how much intentionality and care, like, she's a brilliant coach, phenomenal recruiter, great ambassador for the game, but also just seems to give a shit about people all over her life on a daily basis. And it was cool.
I'm not here to bash Geno. We know I've had complicated feelings about him, but anyone trying to deny what Geno and UConn have done for women's basketball is dumb as hell. And also, UConn's not done. I don't know if you've seen but they have Paige Bueckers and Azzi Fudd. So like, they're going to be back in the Final Four again. They’re probably going to win again. But I think it was a really cool passing of the torch almost moment, you know, with Dawn getting her second in four years and beating Geno's team, you know? Dawn is now the face of women's basketball, and how cool to have a Black woman in a Southern conservative state leading a program with the fearlessness that she does. It's cool moment.
Shireen: Lindsay, thank you for all of that. I did just want to add one thing about Dawn Staley. She said to me, when she accepted the championship trophy, that it was all predestined, and that sat with me for a long time. Like, she brought a lot of her own personal spiritual presence. She also did it in a $5,000 jacket, which I thought was amazing. But she really, when you talk about Dawn Staley's intentionality, that really hit me hard. She's like the Lady Danbury of women's basketball.
Jessica: [laughs] Oh no. To Lindsay's point about how she waters every inch, like, one of the great things she did is in that acceptance of the trophy and the championship is named all the players who don't really make it off the bench, right? Like, she wanted to give everyone even on her team that little bit of shine in that moment. And just, she's very good at this in a way that really captures your heart, especially as a fan of women's sports where we don't see that kind of coverage of even bench players, right? She made sure that we were paying attention. Linz, I did want to ask, because you were in the arena for the semifinals and the finals, and they had very different energy to say the least. The semifinals were weird. They felt weird on TV, and I felt a lot better when you tweeted that there was weird energy for the semifinals. The final though hit. Like, you could feel it coming through the television. So like, what do you think was going on there?
Lindsay: Yeah, I have lots of theories. But first of all, I just do not get priority seating at these things, which is fine. Although it sucks how hard it is not to get sometimes sucked into the hierarchy of media that exists at these things. Do you know what I mean? I was the third to last person on the seating chart, and I was in like a dungeon and I was next to a guy who only covers sports from North Dakota. And there were like nobody from North Dakota playing. And then another guy who was clearly on something and was just there for a friend. So these were just like…It’s just hard not to get sucked in, right? And the seven people next to me who were technically before me on the seating chart all didn't even care enough to show up. [laughs] So it was just like, all right. Okay, cool. We're here. This is great.
Shireen: Did you have to stay there or did you move?
Lindsay: I moved eventually during the semis. I didn't know if it was because of where I was sitting that everything felt so weird to me. But I really think it's mainly neutral sites are hard. And the way the Final Four is set up, it's one ticket for both semis, right? Like, back to back. So it's a lot of people buy the tickets not having a rooting interest, just to be there. And if you do have a rooting interest, likely it's only in one of the two games, right? And you know, there were four really big programs. So there wasn't like a big underdog story to get behind. Besides Paige Buecker's being from Minneapolis, there wasn't like a home team, and none of its teams are even from close by to Minneapolis, right? I think it was like a little bit of the whole structure of it is weird. And it's why I'm actually…A big topic of conversation I should say was whether the first rounds should remain that the top four seeds are hosting or move to neutral sites. And I think this goes against the grain.
A lot of people think I think they should stay at the top four seeds. I think maybe move it to just the top eight. I don't know. But A) I think it makes the regular season more interesting, because getting the 4 seed above a 5 seed is a huge, huge deal, because you get to host that first weekend of games, and I like anything that makes the regular season count just a little bit more. But also the atmosphere is so good, because you do have a local crowd and it's hard to get that. So I think that's why. That's my theory, is it's just the weirdness of a neutral site and sometimes it's hard to translate into energy.
Shireen: I really appreciate you spelling that out for a lot of our listeners who may not know and understand how all that works. And I think the behind the scenes here, this is a bit of a BTS with Lindsay Gibbs on the Final Four. I think this is a really great. One of the other things I wanted to ask, because you do talk about coverage. And I just wanted to say – and it's me again, hello, the Canadian interjecting with a Canadian point. But TSN did cover the Final Four. And Claire Hanna, who's been on the show, she’s a flamethrower, she’s a dear friend. And your selfies with her are gorgeous, by the way.
Lindsay: Loved her. Loved her!
Shireen: But she was there to cover it. And she said it was like the assignment of a lifetime because of the energy and everything that was amazing. But also ironically, U Sports, the Canadian version of the NCAA, had our women's basketball championship that same night of the final, which wasn't covered. It was streamed. But I just find that really interesting how, you know, looking at it, major sports networks in this country don't even cover our own national championship. And we announced it last week, the Ryerson Rams won. You know, it's incredible. I was so excited. I actually teach at that institution, so it's very exciting, but I didn't even know. And I was watching the American Final Four women's college thing, not even my own. Like, you know, I want you to expand a little on that, and I want people in Canadian broadcasters and universities to take notes now.
Lindsay: Yeah, I think it's very interesting because I noted and I wrote in Power Plays about how this was the most covered Final Four ever. I started noticing this in Greensboro for the regional. The last regular tournament was 2019, and I'd been at the Greensboro regionals and there was an ESPN reporter there who was actually usually an NFL reporter, but he was there, you know, and then there was an AP reporter. No other national media. All other media was like local to the teams or, you know, women's basketball-centric media. Whereas this year there was Sports Illustrated, Washington Post, New York Times, The Athletic, all these national outlets. And, you know, I did the digging, and it's between 2019 and now, all of these outlets dedicated more people to the Final Four, sent more people to the regionals, dedicated more resources to covering it. I think it goes to show how influenceable everybody in media is, do you know what I mean? [laughs]
Like, one of the things I noted was that the reason this struck me as such a hopeful thing was because it wasn't one organization making a change, right? It was media centers, newsrooms across the continent making the same decision. And look, if the New York Times has three reporters at an event, it’s going to signal to other places that this is something that we should cover, that this matters. So, none of these are happening in a vacuum. Now we just need that energy carried elsewhere, right? To other women's sports. And we need the momentum to continue. It's not an easy thing to do, because there should be enough to fully cover the NCAA women's basketball and the Canadian sports, right? It shouldn't be in competition. For now it's a win because you got one event that's been built up all these years almost to the coverage level, right? But there's a long way to go. And there are more events that deserve this type of coverage.
Shireen: I have another question. Last year, there was a lot of hullaballoo about the weight room. Was it better this year, Linz?
Lindsay: Well, yes. I mean, you know, the weight room was really a symbol after all, because they weren't at a neutral site, right? Like, for the whole tournament. So, you know, they were mainly using the weight rooms at the sites where they were and no problems there. Overall, there were some cosmetic changes this year, as we talked about an earlier episode. It was officially March Madness. There was a first four, there’s some things to be positive about. What really got me excited this year was that these head coaches, mainly Dawn Staley, Tara VanDerveer, Courtney Banghart at UNC and head coach of Longwood, the #16 seed, Rebecca Tillett, who talked about the unit, which is the payout that the NCAA gives men's programs for making the NCAA tournament but doesn't give to the women's tournament. And that's really the root of all of this. I found it very promising that a lot of powerful coaches – mainly the female ones, I must note. I did not hear the men coaches of women's basketball call this out as much. The unit is what needs to change. So, they made sure that that stayed in the headlines, which I thought was a very promising sign.
Jessica: Linz, I wanted to know, after going to this Final Four, did it change where you stand on the possible combining of the men's and women's Final Four at this point?
Lindsay: No. Women's Final Four, stay standalone for now. It is pretty damn awesome to be in a downtown center and have signs for women's sport everywhere you go. And to have every bar talking about women's sports and knowing that the women's tournament is there and matters. That's worth preserving for now. What a special, special thing. All right. Now, I want to go on to some of the stuff I missed, maybe you missed too. Shireen, can you tell me about the Isobel Cup? Because I was so sad that I missed that.
Shireen: Yeah. Thank you. So, the Isobel Cup happened during the women's basketball tournament, so there's a lot of sports going on and a lot of stuff happening, and I was doing some PWHPA coverage as well and then doing this and shifting over. So basically, the Premier Hockey Federation season ended in Florida. So, those teams of the PHF ended up traveling down to Florida, a place called Wesley Chapel. And they played at the Advent Health Center. And I was kind of sad, because had it been a little closer I might've gone. But also, Florida isn’t synonymous with women's hockey, but this is about infrastructure and it's about availability and it's about what they could do. And honestly, for a lot of the players that I saw, they vacationed after in Florida. So it was convenient for them. But anyways, all this is to say that the Connecticut Whale ended up playing the reigning champs, Boston Pride, for the cup on that Monday night.
But at the end of the regular season, the Connecticut Whale, who are coached by Colton Orr, who's a former NHLer, were in the number one seed. Toronto Six was number two. I was very hopeful. I was very excited. And Mark Joslin is the coach of the Toronto Six. And then Boston Pride was ranked number three after regular season. They were coached by Paul Mara, who's a storied NHL defenseman. There was upsets for sure, because the Boston Pride walked away with a championship. It was…Okay, I'm trying really hard not to be like “I don't like Boston” because of my nature and history of hockey just Boston sports teams. And I try not to let that seep into women's hockey [Jessica laughs] because I really respect these teams. But it's Boston! Y’all, it's Boston.
Jessica: So they weren't expected to win? Like, that was an upset?
Shireen: Definitely. They were ranked third after regular season. And this is tournament play, right? So I really thought the Whale was going to win it. You know, I don't know anything about Connecticut, except I think Who’s The Boss? was based there in the comedy series. [Jessica laughs] Like, everyone commutes to…And ESPN is there. Like, I don't know what–
Jessica: [laughs] Your brain is the most interesting place.
Lindsay: You’re a UConn fan, Shireen!
Shireen: I am, but like, I think stores… [laughter] When I first think of Connecticut, that’s what I–
Jessica: You think of Who’s The Boss? [laughter]
Lindsay: Before UConn women's basketball?!
Shireen: Like, Geno's the second. Tony…I know Tony Danza is terrible, but I watched a lot of that show. So I thought…Anyways, my point is, Connecticut, I was like, I want this for them because they work hard. They also have a team that's been building and building, and in women's hockey there’s not always that consistency, right? I wanted this for them. I also really, really wanted the Six to win because I was there their last game at home, I watched them. That back pass from Shiann Darkangelo was amazing. For people that don't know, when you go into the PHF rules or if you go into overtime, you play three on three. It’s riveting. And I really wanted the Six to win, obviously because of Saroya Tinker as well. I have her jersey. But they didn’t. And I was like, what the hell? So, second year in a row, PHF, our champions or the Boston Pride. Yay.
Jessica: Shireen, one of the few things I heard around this, there was a report about one of the owners of the Boston Pride. This is a very Burn It All Down turn that I'm making here, but…Not great, right?
Shireen: Yeah, this was…And I do want to say, shoutout to Alex Azzi of NBC from On Her Turf for chasing this story, for literally…She DM’d me and said you need to see this. I was in Peterborough that weekend. I was covering the PWHPA that flamethrowers heard about. So I wasn't tuned in specifically, but I was like, what the fuck? So, here's this lowdown, friends. John Boynton is part owner of the Boston Pride. He's also co-owner of the Metropolitan Riveters, a PHF team as well. So, this man owns a lot. So, the Boston Pride are owned and operated by – and this is from Alex Azzi’s article now – by BTM Partners. It's a company founded by John Boynton. In addition to serving as the chairman of the PHF’s board of governors, Boynton is also the chairman of Yandex, Russia's largest technology company. It has been compared to Google, right? So it has ties to the Kremlin, and it has been – and this again is from the article – has been accused of “suppressing factual information and promoting propaganda related to Russia's ongoing war in Ukraine.”
Earlier this month, Yandex executive and director and deputy CEO Tigran Khudaverdyan was sanctioned by the European Union after he attended a meeting with Russian president Vladimir Putin on the same date that Russia invaded Ukraine. So, On Her Turf…I know Alex reached out to both Boynton and PHF for comment about the ongoing war. Boynton did reply about the PHF's future but didn't address anything about Yandex or Russia's war in Ukraine. And PHF didn't reply to On Her Turf. PHF is currently without a commissioner because Tyler Tumminia stepped down after the championship. So they don't have a commissioner and they have a shady ass investor in this. And I'm a huge lover of women's hockey. The PHF has some incredible movement, you know, combating structural racism and changing their name as a league to recognize all the players. Like, these are big, big steps.
But also, you know, it's important to be transparent in everything, not just some things. I'm like, I find this…Like, yeah, we're excited that there's so much money – $25 million – being invested, but where's that money coming from? And this isn't just me being salty because it's Boston, because I actually appreciate the Riveters. We talked about them on the show, Madison and Anya Packer doing some really cool shit. But these are questions that actually need to be asked, so I appreciate that ask. And the article wasn't shared a lot. I will say that, and that surprised me as well, because usually women's hockey people, they're a rowdy bunch and they love these kinds of stories. I don't know if it was just so busy that weekend, because there's a lot of sports happening. March is truly madness. And this was no exception.
Lindsay: I think it's so important to talk about it, and kudos, kudos to Alex for that reporting. And look, we talk about this on the show, like with money, with capitalism comes all the problems that capitalism brings. And just because we want women's sports to have more money doesn't mean we stop calling people out for their shit, you know? Very quickly, Shireen, I did read somewhere that there was going to be another meeting, like between the two groups, the PHF and the PWHPA…?
Shireen: Well, from what I understand from some women's hockey insiders, there are continuous meetings. But the thing is that the PHF sometimes make statements and makes comments publicly, whereas the PWHPA will not say anything until all the I's are dotted and the T's are crossed. So, therein lies the difference. There's not anything solidified to say…And hockey media, and particularly Jeff Marek reports a lot on this, you know, will just report whatever's happening because that's what hockey media is supposed to do. Just report on something, even if there's nothing concrete. So I think we're seeing a little bit of that. Whereas the PWHPA, you know, a lot of their players are coming back from the Olympics and doing Olympic responsibilities, but also they just had an incredibly successful showcase in Montreal, in the Bell Centre, which is huge. They're having showcases constantly. They're doing more things. And so they're busy. So, we'll find out when there's something we need to know that’s true.
And the PHF is still looking for a commissioner. I think that's something to also be said about sustainability and consistency here. That's extremely important when building a model of anything. I mean, I know Tyler Tumminia came from baseball and she was really good and put everything into it, but ultimately...And it wasn't a rift. And I know this for a fact. It wasn't a rift, the reason why she left. She left for personal reasons. And the women's hockey and the PHF has some incredible hockey and deserves that consistency. And money coming in is great, but as the illustrious Biggie Smalls said: more money, more problems.
Lindsay: Absolutely. Thank you for that. Jess, there were things happening in tennis in March too. Tennis has its own version of March Madness with the Indian Wells-Miami double. What happened?
Jessica: Iga Swiatek. That's what happened. [Lindsay laughs] She won Indian Wells and then the Miami Open. It’s a back-to-back sweep that's called the sunshine double. This is a really hard thing to do, which is clear from the shortlist of women who've actually done this. Iga is only the fourth ever, joining Steffi Graf, Kim Clijsters and Victoria Azarenka. A hell of a list there. But she's also the youngest to ever do it. She's 20 years old. She's on a hell of a tear right now. That win in the final of Miami put her current winning streak at 17 matches. She also won the Qatar TotalEnergies Open – which I'd never heard of before – which means she swept the first three WTA 1000 titles of the season. No one has ever done that. The WTA 1000 titles are basically the next level down from the grand slams. These are tough tournaments to win. In fact, only three players have ever won three or more consecutive WTA 1000 tournaments in a single season. Those other two are Serena, who won four in a row in 2013, and Wozniacki who won three in a row in 2010. Wild.
We're now going to move into the clay court season, and Swiatek’s breakthrough on tour happened in 2020 when she won the French Open. She's good on clay, is what I'm saying. So we should see more of her going into this clay season. One of the fun things from Miami that I did want to spotlight is she defeated Osaka 6-4, 6-0 in that final, which was amazing for Naomi to get to the final in Miami after everything that happened in Indian Wells and all the discussion about her strength and mental health and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Clearly, she's still a phenomenal player. But the two of them have talked now about like that this may be a rival in the making, which is very exciting. I would love for these two young women in tennis to have a rivalry. They both have at this point won a match against the other. Both matches were won in straight sets. Osaka in Toronto in 2019, and now Iga in Miami. So I would say Iga is the story of March tennis.
Lindsay: Yeah. And, you know, Ash Barty retired and it's like, women's tennis is we're going to be okay, you know? We miss you Ash, but we're all good.
Shireen: Jess, I want to ask about Serena. Like, I've seen Serena in public at different functions. She was actually at Brooklyn Beckham's wedding this past weekend, which is important for everybody to know.
Jessica: With Venus.
Shireen: With Venus. What's going on with Serena and playing?
Jessica: Yeah, that's a great question, Shireen. So, there was a ton of speculation just this last week. Simona Halep announced that Patrick Mouratoglou, famously Serena's coach since I think 2012, that he would be Simona's full-time coach. This is the first time that he's taken on another tennis player full time since he started coaching Serena in 2012. He’s kind of done like consulting work with other tennis players, but this felt different. And so there immediately became a discussion about what this meant for Serena's return. Mouratoglou wrote in his statement, “I had a conversation with Serena and the door opened for me at least short term to work with someone else.” What does that mean, Patrick? [laughs]
Almost in the wake of that, Serena went on to Instagram stories. It was super weird. I will…Like, you know my love is for Serena is unending, but also she was at a Bitcoin conference, standing in a room with Aaron Rogers and just like everything about that is hard for me to say out loud. But she hinted that she would be back at Wimbledon. And then she had a second post on social media hinting at it. She hasn't played since the first round of Wimbledon in 2021. She had that leg injury and went out like four or five games into the first round. You know, and she turns 41 in September. She's gotta be coming to the end here. I will cry. I'm gonna cry, everybody, about that when that happens. But so, it's not clear, like, what's actually going on with her at this point in time. But it looks like we might see her this summer. I hope we do.
Lindsay: Me too. And tennis is a coed sport. [laughter] Did anything happen with the men’s?
Jessica: I will say, honestly, I don't know a ton about the men's side right now. But I feel like all I keep hearing about is there's this young Spaniard. He’s 18, his name is Carlos Alcaraz. He actually won the Miami Open. He went to the semifinals at Indian Wells where he lost to Nadal. Nadal then lost a Taylor Fritz in the final. So I guess Taylor Fritz is good now? But in a piece for the New York Times, Christopher Clary wrote of Alcatraz, “Now, depending on how he does at the clay court tournaments in Europe ahead of the French Open, Alcaraz could arrive at Roland Garros as a favorite.” Which is just a wild sentence to me. Please don't ask me about Djokovic. I do not know what is going on with him. I don't know if he'll be able to play. I assume he'll be able to play the French Open, but I don't know. I don't know. Medvedev, I remember hearing he was briefly number one, struggled with the Miami Open, fell back to number two. And then he had some kind of surgery, so he's going to be out of the beginning of the clay court season. So I guess we're going to find out a lot on the men's side in the clay court part of this year.
Nadal, he’s old for a tennis player and he plays such hard…The way he plays tennis is so hard on the body, but you just can't count. If he's playing tennis and he's going to go to Paris, it’s just impossible to count him out too. So that'll be interesting. My final tennis thought, because I totally missed this, I was supposed to be on the episode with Shireen and Amira, the Bitches Be Laborin'. And then I had COVID, so I was not able to chime in on the fact that all of the tiebreakers will be the same at all of the grand slams. And I just want to say it's good and I love it. And I hate when matches go on forever. I think it's bad for the tennis players. Most of the time, it's pretty boring for spectators. Everyone will bring up like Federer-Nadal in 2008 at Wimbledon, which is true, but to me that's just like the exception that proves the rule, the fact that we all can name like the one that's good. So, thrilled. Thank you to the grand slams for making the Jessica Luther rule about tiebreaks.
Lindsay: This week for the interview, we have Jackie Powell of Bleacher Report and The Next to talk all things WNBA draft. It's time for the burn pile. I'm going to start. This is a story that, I'm going to be honest, there's some conflicting reports about. But I want to take an overarching big picture burn to it. So, there are reports that have come out saying that at Grambling State University, the new head volleyball coach, Chelsey Lucas, decided to cut the entire team, so, take away all the scholarships and basically start from scratch. There's since been the athletic director has said, well, maybe she allowed four to five to stay and then the others had a chance to try out to keep their spot. But what we do know is that after just three practices as the head coach – she was hired in February, and we're not in season for volleyball – that she sent the entire roster scrambling. There are a lot of people incredibly, obviously upset about this, upset about the turmoil that this has put so many of these students into financially, personally, emotionally.
You know, we're talking so much about the transfer portal in women's basketball right now, and men's basketball. And the transfer portal, it always has these really high numbers in it. And there's been some rule changes lately by the NCAA to make it easier for athletes to join the portal. And there's all this navel-gazing and all this, oh, kids just can't take it places. And oh, kids, you know, need to stick it out places. And the second there's a problem, kids just go into the portal, they don't fight through it. Blah, blah, blah. I want to say, the whole thing….Of course some of these kids are going to make bad decisions about whether to go into the transfer portal or not. They’re kids. And also, we all make the wrong choices sometimes. [laughs] That's the whole point of it being a choice! But none of this takes away from the fact that the transfer portal is one of the most necessary things in college athletics right now.
As we've seen, there are no protections for these players at the schools where they are. These volleyball players at Grambling, they're on just one year by year contracts. A new coach comes in, everything about their future is thrown up for grabs. So, I'd like to burn just this system and also burn anyone…I’m not saying you can't criticize a player's decision to enter the transfer portal or decide whether or not it was a good thing or a bad thing for them to move colleges. But you are no longer allowed to question whether or not they should have that choice and whether or not that flexibility should be granted. So, let’s just burn this whole fucking system, and especially whatever's going on at Grambling State right now.
All: Burn.
Lindsay: Shireen?
Shireen: Yeah, just a trigger warning for racial abuse against children. I just wanted to say this, that you know I'm wrapped up in hockey in a lot of ways. And although I try to surround myself with joy and do the work, there's always these pieces and stories that come out and they live on. A young Black hockey player named David Goodwin, who is from Gatineau, Quebec, plays for Les Voiliers d’Aylmer in a Bantam BB league. This report came from CBC, from Alexander Behne, and he reported that David was explaining that he had been called the n-word constantly all season. He was compared to “African jungle animals.” And I'm pretty sure they're trying to say that they just made monkey chants at him and did that kind of thing. It's not just that this happens. It's that this was the only story about that. It didn't come out in French media as much. And so I do really appreciate the reporting on this, because it matters. It needs to be documented. These types of stories actually do need to be chronicled, because otherwise it's really easy for clubs to not be held accountable. And his mom was interviewed as well. His mother's white, and she said, “I can't even explain the look on his face. He was not sad. It was just shocked.” And that hurt so much to think about, like, you can't protect your child from any type of racist abuse. And it was ongoing and little has been done.
Now, as a result of that reporting, and this came out in another tweet, that other Black and racialized players have come forward saying the same thing. So, this is what we know, that when this is chronicled it opens the doors to other people coming forward and feeling like there is a place and a space, because maybe one of the reasons people don't disclose this happens is that A) the media won't care because it's predominantly white, straight, able-bodied and male. And then the other part is it may not be safe or there may not be support around it. And that is…I cannot underline that enough, that the lack of support for racialized young men and Black men in particular or Indigenous men is staggeringly low. And, you know, the excuses come out. And I'll speak about this more, but yesterday I moderated a panel of Black women in hockey. And Dayton O’Donoghue, who was a 16 year old Black hockey player, said that when faced with that, clubs and teams often say “They're young, they're learning.” They're young, they're learning. It's okay. You know, we want people to be able to grow, but yeah, also be accountable for what actions are done.
So, education is a piece, absolutely. Unlearning is a piece. But you know what? What about the piece of the young men who are victimized here? What about the ones who are, you know, the receiving end of this type of abuse? It's horrible. And it destroys and severs ties with this. Like, it's so…I cannot say this enough. You cannot help what sport you fall in love with, and that your god-given talent is that you're good at hockey. Does that mean you get this? And this is something that Canada is so fucking unwilling to address, and people are so protective of hockey. “Oh, hockey’s not the problem. It's just one bad apple.” You know what? Fuck that. This is a part of hockey culture. It saddens me, it enrages me. And my heart goes out to these players. They just love this game and they're good at it. That's not their fault. And the fact that other young white men are not being held accountable.
And believe you me, I am sure that those racist attacks and commentary didn't just come from the players. That breeds at home. Their parents are speaking like this. There's no question in my mind that that commentary also came from the stands. So, check that. You know, figure yourselves the fuck out. And I want to tell…I’m sorry, I'm swearing. I know it's Ramadan, but like please, Allah hates racism too. So I think we're good. So anyways, all the support for David and all the young players out there who are struggling with this. There are places that hockey loves you, for sure. And I just want to take this and I want to burn it all down. Burn.
All: Burn.
Lindsay: Jess?
Jessica: On Sunday, April 3rd, Madison Shanley sang the national anthem before the Portland Timbers hosted the LA Galaxy. She wore a bright red shirt with the words “YOU KNEW” in white capital letters. The shirt was created by the Rose City Riveters, supporters of Portland Thorns FC, the NWSL team. I feel like our listeners are probably already familiar with why Shanley would choose to wear this shirt. But just in case, “YOU KNEW” is a phrase the supporters groups for both the Timbers and the Thorns have been directing at the organizations and their owner Merritt Paulson after reporters at The Athletic reported last year that, after the Thorns learned that the coach in 2015, Paul Riley, sexually coerced two players, they quietly let him leave. He eventually went on to coach other teams. More recently, the Timbers never reported to the MLS that one of their players, Andy Polo, had been cited for grabbing his wife's wrist. Polo's wife also says the Timbers pressured her to drop the charges. Shanley, who says she is a survivor of sexual assault and domestic violence, has performed the national anthem for both the Thorns and the Timbers many times over for more than a decade. She recently told ESPN that the Polo case was particularly hard for her, mirroring her own experiences.
But why am I burning this? Well, 20 minutes before Shanley was to take to the pitch to perform, her father called her. Her dad, Terry, is buddies with Timbers president of business Mike Golub, and Golub told Terry that Madison wearing the shirt was “a middle finger to the organization.” Golub did not want her to wear the shirt. Shanley told the Oregonian, “When I heard that my dad had been contacted, I was like, what in the actual patriarchy is this? I am a 27 year old woman.” About 10 minutes before she was to walk on the field, Golub spoke to her directly, wanting to know if she really knew about what had happened, if she had “educated herself.” Shanley said she told him that she had done her homework, and she told ESPN, “I was firm in my decision, and I told him that I was willing to risk my relationship with the organization if that's the consequence of my action.” This is a wild series of events.
Had they left her alone and done nothing, most of us would probably never have heard about any of this. But instead, now we have yet another example of how the front offices of these teams don't have a handle on how to handle this criticism. They just want everyone to be quiet, even though that is literally part of the overarching problem in these organizations. I'll just end with Shanley's own words: “If the organization were to apply the energy they're using to silence their followers, including me, to instead hold people accountable, I think that would be the better option for the greater good. It seems that they're applying a lot of energy to denying claims. It seems really counterintuitive that the organization put out their initiatives, which is clear about presenting an opportunity for people to use their voice and get their feedback. But when I use my platform and I try to give my feedback, I'm urged not to. It’s a really confusing message. It's counterintuitive to their initiatives that they're presenting to the public.” So let's just burn all of this. Burn.
All: Burn.
Lindsay: After all that burning, let's lift up some torchbearers. We want to start by saying rest in peace to Dwayne Haskins, the 24 year old Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback and superstar at Ohio State, who died over the weekend. Steelers wide receiver Chase Claypool tweeted about Haskins, writing, “I spent your final moments with you, and I can't help but think about how selfless you were in those moments. All you cared about was making sure that everyone around you was okay. And I can't thank you enough for that. You are what I strive to be.” All right. Our honorable mentions and torchbearers this week, Jess?
Jessica: Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson was confirmed to the US Supreme Court. She is the first Black woman ever to be appointed to the highest court in the US. A true torchbearer.
Lindsay: Shireen?
Shireen: Stephanie Labbé. She played her final match for Canada this weekend. The Olympic gold medalist goalkeeper was nicknamed Canadian Minister of Defense. Like, her Wikipedia was changed within minutes of them winning the gold. It wasn't me. [laughs] She played for 14 years. She was subbed off the field during the match with Nigeria in the first minutes of the second half and received a standing ovation from 20,000 people in the crowd. As a member of the Canadian women's national team, Labbé had 86 appearances, 81 starts, 44 clean sheets, third most all time in the program's history. It is an honor. She is an absolutely exquisite person. She is truly a gem and part of the storied history of the Canadian women's national soccer team. And she will be dearly missed, but we will see her on the scene. I have a feeling that she'll be around on the scene, but it's a well-deserved break. And one of the things I do want to add about Labbé is she's so open about her struggles. She penned a really beautiful essay when she announced her retirement. I think it's geoblocked in the States, but you can watch it on Instagram. And she talked about her struggles with mental health as well, but she talked about connections and community is what kept her in women's soccer for all these years. Community and connections. We feel that. Going to miss you, Labbé.
Lindsay: Janice Pettyjohn is the first woman hired for a full-time football position at Howard University, holding the positions of assistant director of football operations and the director of on-campus recruiting. Here's the part that kills me: she’s only 22 years old! [laughs
Shireen: She’s only 22!?
Lindsay: Yeah, I'm going to just kind of go back to bed now. [laughter] Shireen?
Shireen: God, I'm not 22. [laughs] 16 year old Anna Davis won the Augusta National Women's Amateur where she shot a three under 69 to finish at one under, and won by a single stroke.
Lindsay: Jess? I know this is special.
Jessica: Kelsie Whitmore, a member of the US women's national baseball team and a dual threat pitcher-outfielder signed with the Independent Atlantic League Staten Island FerryHawks – incredible name. As Howard Megdal said in his piece for Sports Illustrated, this is the highest level attained by a woman in professional baseball in more than a generation. And I'll just note, Kelsie is 23 years old. I first interviewed her when she was 17. So when I saw that she's still just 23, I was like, how?! I've known of her for what feels like a really long time! [laughs] She’s been phenomenal and been breaking barriers in baseball for girls and women for many years now. So, this is thrilling.
Lindsay: Can I get a drumroll please?
[drumroll]
Our torchbearer the week: friend of the show, flamethrower Ari Chambers, who…Look, we just want to continue to give out the flowers to her. She was named the Dawn Staley 2022 excellence in broadcasting honoree. Ari gave a beautiful speech. I was on the live stream to watch her receive the award, and she said, “I wanted these athletes to feel seen, and I wanted to pour into the game that poured into me. And how full circle is it for Dawn Staley, the woman I grew up loving, seeing me and wanting the same for me?” It's been really special to kind of get a front row seat to what Ari’s built over the years. And she's nowhere near done building. So we will continue to watch and root her on over here at Burn It All Down and drag her on the show from time to time. And I'll let Dawn Staley finish this up with a clip on why she gave this award to Ari.
Dawn Staley: Your energy is contagious. It is tireless. I mean, you take on all of it – the good, the bad, the ugly. And you fight for our game.
Lindsay: Okay, what’s good? Anyone? Shireen?
Shireen: Oh, you know I'm ready. You know I'm ready. [Jessica laughs] I had the absolute honor of moderating the first Black women and ice hockey panel, ever. It was a collaboration between Black Girl Hockey Club and the MLSE Foundation, Maple Leafs LaunchPad. It was held at the MLSE LaunchPad, which is an absolutely incredible community space in downtown Toronto. It serves different communities, racialized communities, poor communities, everybody. The folks that work there…I mean, I'm spoiled on Burn It All Down. I think our collaboration is the shit. This is the only other time outside of that experience where collaboration has worked in this way. Actually, that's not true. I've had a couple. But this was up there, is all I'm trying to say. It was way up there. Sarah Nurse was on the panel. Yes, the first Black women to ever win a gold medal in ice hockey. Saroya Tinker, plays for the Toronto Six. Dayton O’Donoghue, who was a 16 year old scholarship winner with the Black Girl Hockey Club. And Raegan Subban, who is with TSN media.
Just incredible. And it was such an honor for me to be there and hold that space and to facilitate this discussion. Renee Hess has been in town. We've been tearing through Toronto. Renee's the founder of Black Girl Hockey Club and a very dear and close friend, and she's been on the show and we were up to our usual shenanigans. Went to a Raptors game on Friday night, went to center court – which she so cutely said, “Are we going to center ice?” Which I thought was hysterical, because she thinks in hockey terms, right? And she's like, “Are we going there after the second intermission?” I'm like, it's called halftime. Yeah. It was really cute. Like just spending time with her is a blessing. Because she lives in California, so I don't get to see her a lot. I went to a spa on Friday with her, which is not something I've done in years.
And to take a step back…I've been on a grind. Y’all know that I've been working my ass off for like literally years. To take a step back from this and to try to get my body to slow down. I've had like a physical response, like, it's not accustomed to being taken care of in this way. So it was really nice, and it's a lesson. In addition to trying to scour the internet for Brooklyn Beckham’s wedding photos, which were tightly guarded because they're being sold to Hello Magazine and possibly People Magazine, I haven't been able to see. I did get a glimpse of Becks and Posh and even Harper’s dress, their daughter. But I can't see the bride and groom. Nicola Peltz and Brooklyn got married.
Jessica: Oh, Vogue has it.
Shireen: Vogue has it up already. Okay. So Vogue has it. Wasn't going to be Hello. It was going to be Vogue. There's some more really cool things coming up. I'm working on a feature right now for Green Line TO, just busy, but also, you know, trying to keep up with fasting and incorporating that because it's kicking my butt this year. So, that’s what's good.
Lindsay: Awesome. That is quite the list. I love you. Jess?
Jessica: We shouldn't let her go first in the section. [laughter] American Prodigies, this is week eight of nine. So, next week will be the final week that we will have an episode out, which is so bittersweet. But incredibly proud of this project. I will be at the University of Idaho on Tuesday evening doing a talk on journalism and social justice. So, I'm not thrilled that there will be snow on the ground while I am there. When I agreed to go to Idaho in the spring, I asked what was the latest that I could go [laughs] in hopes that I wouldn't be in the snow, but it did not work out that way. But I'm always excited to go onto campus and talk. Students really often give me energy and remind me why I'm doing this work.
And then the final thing is that I asked my trainer at my gym, Amalia – shoutout to Amalia – every time to teach me how to do the clean and jerk, actual weightlifting. And so we have started that process. And I'm now working on what are called power cleans, where you do the bottom part of that, where you pull the bar off the ground and get it up to your shoulders. It's kicking my butt. I hate front squats. And when you do a front squat, you literally are pushing the bar like into your throat as you're holding it. And I've never been a fan, but that is such an important thing when you're doing the clean and jerk. So, Amalia said it's the perfect exercise for me. And you guys will understand, when you start the clean and jerk, you can't think about it. You can think about it up until the moment that you start it, and then you just have to go with it, because if you think too much you will not do it correctly. You will get in your own head and in your own way, which is literally like my life in a microcosm. So it's a good exercise for me mentally as much as physically. So, that's been good.
Lindsay: Awesome. I don't have much this week, you know, the women's Final Four was phenomenal, but I'm grateful that I can rest, and that's kind of it. I wish that everyone had jobs that had flexibility and time to rest. I don't necessarily get paid sick days, but, you know, being my own boss, I can work some things. So, I'm grateful for that and grateful for all of you. All right, this week on the watch calendar: Challenge Cup, NCAA gymnastics natty champ is coming up. And then I know the NBA playoffs begin.
Shireen: Raptors are going to the playoffs!
Lindsay: That is the Canada team, in case you did not know. [laughter] And that's it for this week's episode of Burn It All Down. This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our web and social media wizard. We are part of the Blue Wire podcast network. Follow Burn It All Down on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Listen, subscribe, and rate – please rate the show! – on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, Google Play and TuneIn. We've got show links and transcripts on our website, burnitalldownpod.com, and there's also a link to our merch at our Bonfire store. Once again, you can find that all at burnitalldownpod.com. Thank you to our patrons. Your support literally makes all this possible. If you want to become a sustaining donor, visit patreon.com/burnitalldown. And in honor of our beloved Brenda, burn on and not out.